Advice Wanted on EV Under $30k: Used S60, Wait for Used M3, Other?

[IndyGopher]

Would appreciate any advice. I drive a 2008 Nissan Altima with 175k miles. I've long wanted an EV, but I'm fairly frugal and couldn't justify the cost -- especially since my car runs fine. Well, the Altima is starting to make some weird noises, so I've preliminarily begun the search for a different car. My wife's CX-5 cost us about $30k OTD last year, so I've set the same limit for myself. It's arbitrary, but comfortable. In that price range, it seems I can afford the following:

• Used S60 (high mileage, usually '12 or '13 with no AP and no warranty. Free supercharging. Probably have to look hard and wait for the right one to pop up at this price.)
• Used i3 or Leaf (Good value, low mileage, '16- '18, cool tech like Android Auto and adaptive cruise -- both of which I love on the CX-5. Some warranty remaining. But less range, less reliable batteries, and much less cool than Tesla.)
• New Leaf after tax credit (requires negotiating, battery quality unknown, big depreciation hit. But very solid range, many bells and whistles, full warranty. Still much less cool than Tesla).
• Some kind of PHEV, used or new (still paying for gas and doing oil changes and the like. Recent model years, some warranty, etc. Probably enough battery range for most of my purposes. Much more affordable).
• Wait a year or two for a used M3 (Let someone else take major depreciation hit, AP 2.5 and much better tech than all of the above, much better range...obviously have to wait a while and keep eyes on pricing while continuing to drive the Altima. I'm not desperate, but I'm ready).

Some things to know about my situation:

• We live less than a mile from a supercharger, and it's right in front of the grocery store we visit weekly...so the free charging on a used S is appealing.
• I only commute about 30 miles RT to work and only 4 times/week. Would obviously drive other places on the weekends and things though.
• We don't roadtrip much. Perhaps two or three times a year, but never more than about 5 hours.
• I like keeping my cars for a long time to extract full value. I've purchased 3 cars in my life -- all new, and all kept for over 10 years. Like I said, I'm pretty frugal. I like to make a smart decision upfront and stick with it.
• I'm pretty handy and have done most of my car maintenance the past 6 years. Oil changes, tires, filters, brakes, etc.

I can make an argument for all the cars above, so I've really sort of confused myself. You're all obviously huge Tesla fans (duh), but I couldn't find anywhere else on the web to post this question. Any thoughts and opinions are really appreciated! Thanks!

 

[FlatSix911]

The used Model S would be the correct answer... great technology, free Supercharging and style to boot.

 

[jebinc]

The used Model S would be the correct answer... great technology, free Supercharging and style to boot.

I don't think that can be had for under $30k, can it?

 

[Shadnic]

I got my 2013 Model S60 for 30k. Around 60k miles at the time, very clean/good condition, extended warranty intact, free supercharging (sort of, long story). For being 6+ years old at this point, I really can't fault it for anything, it's a great car. Would a bigger battery be nice? Sure, but I can get from San Diego to Palm Springs or LA on a charge and superchargers are everywhere. Would autopilot be fun? Sure, but I honestly love driving an EV because of the torque so I haven't missed it too much.

Honestly the biggest downside? Once you have a taste of Tesla...you just want more. I'd give anything to have a P or D model. I test drove a M3 (RWD because I was being realistic) and it just felt less fun to drive than my Model S (though I admit I'd love a slightly smaller car).

I also drove a BMW i3 for a while. I absolutely loved the car, and MUCH cheaper used, but the range was just impossible to live with in Southern California. Still one of my favorite cars ever, but once you drive a non-Tesla EV, you realize how handicapped they are due to the lack of infrastructure. The i3 is like an incredibly cute and fun toy, but the Model S is a real car.

 

[Vinc]

Would appreciate any advice. I drive a 2008 Nissan Altima with 175k miles. I've long wanted an EV, but I'm fairly frugal and couldn't justify the cost -- especially since my car runs fine. Well, the Altima is starting to make some weird noises, so I've preliminarily begun the search for a different car. My wife's CX-5 cost us about $30k OTD last year, so I've set the same limit for myself. It's arbitrary, but comfortable. In that price range, it seems I can afford the following:

• Used S60 (high mileage, usually '12 or '13 with no AP and no warranty. Free supercharging. Probably have to look hard and wait for the right one to pop up at this price.)
• Used i3 or Leaf (Good value, low mileage, '16- '18, cool tech like Android Auto and adaptive cruise -- both of which I love on the CX-5. Some warranty remaining. But less range, less reliable batteries, and much less cool than Tesla.)
• New Leaf after tax credit (requires negotiating, battery quality unknown, big depreciation hit. But very solid range, many bells and whistles, full warranty. Still much less cool than Tesla).
• Some kind of PHEV, used or new (still paying for gas and doing oil changes and the like. Recent model years, some warranty, etc. Probably enough battery range for most of my purposes. Much more affordable).
• Wait a year or two for a used M3 (Let someone else take major depreciation hit, AP 2.5 and much better tech than all of the above, much better range...obviously have to wait a while and keep eyes on pricing while continuing to drive the Altima. I'm not desperate, but I'm ready).

Some things to know about my situation:

• We live less than a mile from a supercharger, and it's right in front of the grocery store we visit weekly...so the free charging on a used S is appealing.
• I only commute about 30 miles RT to work and only 4 times/week. Would obviously drive other places on the weekends and things though.
• We don't roadtrip much. Perhaps two or three times a year, but never more than about 5 hours.
• I like keeping my cars for a long time to extract full value. I've purchased 3 cars in my life -- all new, and all kept for over 10 years. Like I said, I'm pretty frugal. I like to make a smart decision upfront and stick with it.
• I'm pretty handy and have done most of my car maintenance the past 6 years. Oil changes, tires, filters, brakes, etc.

I can make an argument for all the cars above, so I've really sort of confused myself. You're all obviously huge Tesla fans (duh), but I couldn't find anywhere else on the web to post this question. Any thoughts and opinions are really appreciated! Thanks!

Having both an S60 and i3, my vote might go for the i3. With fast charging the range becomes less of an issue, and with your budget you would be able to get a much newer car than with a Tesla. Further down the road, perhaps you can get a used M3

Plus the more expensive insurance premium for the Tesla would probably be much more than the savings for free supercharging...

 

[dedicatedtek]

Paid electric at home vs gasoline prices will be a lot cheaper. And virtually no maintenance on the Tesla.

 

[IndyGopher]

Man this forum is awesome! Thanks for all the quick and really helpful opinions! The more the merrier, so I'd love people to chime in here if you've got thoughts.

• Insurance is something I hadn't thought a ton about, so that was a great comment.
• I also appreciated someone mentioning AP. Anyone else have feedback on lack of AP specifically? I don't have TACC on my Altima and I obviously survive, but man, it really is nice on my wife's car. I don't drive in horrendous traffic often (or roadtrip much as mentioned), so it's a luxury -- but a nice one.
• Great to hear from people who drive an S60 from this vintage. Does the tech still feel super impressive...and does it feel like it'll stand the test of time if I keep the car long term?

I've never riden in or driven any of these cars, so my next step is likely some test drives. Anyone with an older S60 live in the Indy area and wanna help with that one? I'll probably post in the Indy owners forum after this, although I'm not sure how active it is.

 

[Vinc]

Man this forum is awesome! Thanks for all the quick and really helpful opinions! The more the merrier, so I'd love people to chime in here if you've got thoughts.

• Insurance is something I hadn't thought a ton about, so that was a great comment.
• I also appreciated someone mentioning AP. Anyone else have feedback on lack of AP specifically? I don't have TACC on my Altima and I obviously survive, but man, it really is nice on my wife's car. I don't drive in horrendous traffic often (or roadtrip much as mentioned), so it's a luxury -- but a nice one.
• Great to hear from people who drive an S60 from this vintage. Does the tech still feel super impressive...and does it feel like it'll stand the test of time if I keep the car long term?

I've never riden in or driven any of these cars, so my next step is likely some test drives. Anyone with an older S60 live in the Indy area and wanna help with that one? I'll probably post in the Indy owners forum after this, although I'm not sure how active it is.

If you can find a MS with AP1 within your price range, it would certainly be worth considering, but you would be looking at a late 2014 or newer, and that is a tall order for under 30K. AP1 is certainly amazing. If you go older, the tech starts getting a bit long in the tooth. Some cars might not even have parking sensors or live traffic updates, as those things were extra, part of the optional "tech package".

 

[john85775]

Not on your list - and not fully in keeping with your style, but I'd be considering a base, new Model 3 SR. The effective price after the federal rebate is not much more than your target cost, and the base models depreciate far less than the others.

We own a 2018 Model X and the tech in the Model 3 is simply better. It's frustrating that the X, which cost 3x more than a 3, charges slower, has a less efficient motor, etc.

 

[cypho]

I vote none of the above. Instead of looking at the sticker price, look at the cost per year.

Historically you have felt it was time to move on when the car hit the 10 year mark. If you buy a 6 year old Model S for 30,000, you may feel the need for something newer 4 years from now. So the car cost you 7,500 per year.

If you buy a new model 3 for 40K and keep it for 10 years, that is only 4,000 per year. Newer technology, better range, faster charging for nearly half the price of that 30K model S.

 

[maximizese]

While a Tesla sure would be nice for you, I'm thinking your frugality and commute might allow you to look for a 80 mile range BEV. Years ago when I was looking into a cheap EV, I stumbled across the first gen Nissan Leaf and Fiat 500e. My wife couldn't stand the busy interior of the Leaf and steered straight to the Fiat. I found an off-lease 2013 model with a sunroof and 22K miles on for $7,300 out the door...I've known wheel and tire packages that were more than this car!

The range was enough for her 55 mile commute to the office, she'd get there with 10-30 miles remains and required a 2.5-3.5hr recharge at her office garage before she could drive home. We put on 46K miles in just under 2 years. It made for a great errand car, but absolutely useless as a road-trip car. The small size is also great in metro areas and in tight parking situations...see below. We wouldn't have been able to park had we driven our Tesla, Duramax, or even our Golf TDI.

We bought the Tesla mostly for the solo-HOV access decal and the extra range is nice where my wife can drive round-trip to the office with plenty of range to spare. Supercharging unlocks the car as a suitable road-trip option; the internet connectivity, aerodynamics, and smooth suspension makes it a no-brainer. We paid just under $40K for an out of state loaded November 2013 production S 85 with under 60K miles through Tesla.

If $30K is your limit, I would lean more towards a used i3, 330e, Leaf, eGolf, or Bolt. Non-Tesla EVs under 150 range miles are flooding the used car markets from lease returns and have driven the used costs down quite substantially. If you have charging options near your office, I would strongly consider one of these for under $18K to dip your toe into the world of EVs.

 

[IndyGopher]

Wow, more comments already! You people rock. I was waiting to see who would suggest a new M3 You've just royally ticked off my wife lol! I've definitely considered that. I actually had a reservation for over a year and thought I'd for sure end up with the $35k SR. But with no AP, live maps, heated seats (and whatever else is missing)...it just doesn't seem as luxurious as our CX-5, let along a MS (even an old one). I have a hard time justifying it, although I know you're paying for the battery and styling. But in my head I'd feel compelled to go for the $39k "plus" version, which is already far over what I was wanting to spend (works out to like a $200/mo bump in payment). It's a good point about total cost to own (especially if I'd ditch the S after a few years), so that truly is something to consider.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Get a white SR+ for $39K, less the $1,875 Federal Tax credit, plus the delivery charge and sales taxes.
If you are going to keep for a long time, its OK to use a 72 month loan.

You'll get a much longer warranty and some of the other benefits of a new car with all the latest stuff, including AP and cup holders.
Slightly longer range than an old S60, but not as big.

 

[IndyGopher]

Thanks again, everyone! Did some searching last night on the many models mentioned here and in other forums. Wow, it's gonna be a tough choice. LONG list of mostly used cars, although a Leaf or Bolt can be had new under $30k with negotiations and tax credits. While I could talk myself into a new M3 SR+, it's tough to justify at my age and station when there's so many other options (both new and late model used) available for $15k less. After I've driven everything else, I think I'll jump into a M3 again and decide it it's worth the added cost. But here's just a partial list of what I found:

• 2014 S60 with 72k miles for $27k, but no AP, a few interior issues, and the range is down to 160 mi (worrisome as that seems quite low). It's also a thousand miles from me, so I can't just drive across town to see and test it.
• 2017 Bolt Premier with 36k miles and like every option available for $21k. Again, located across the country, which stinks...but there's similar used Bolts around here I could test.
• 2017 Ioniq with only 4k miles and again like every available option for $24k. This one is within driving distance, so I can test it. My only worry is these cars weren't meant to be sold/ownded in Indiana, so I worry about warranty work and service.
• 2016 i3 REX with 23k miles for $25k. Fully optioned. Least pure electric range in the bunch and shortest remaining warranty.
• 2018 Leaf SL with 6k miles for $25k. Midrange options. And as mentioned, I could probably even get into a 2019 Leaf under my budget. My big worry with Nissan is the battery health, of course. And since I tend to keep cars for a long time that's concerning.
• Many other shorter range vehicles that I could maybe justify given my short commute: eGolf, Fiat, and even a 2016 fully optioned Mercedes B-Class (oddly intriguing since it's pretty rare).

Thanks again to everyone who's posted. I also posed this question on Bolt and Ioniq forums, and while they had various opinions, the one thing that's clear to me is I'll definitely NOT regret my decision to go electric!

 

[Cheburashka]

Personally I'd get the Bolt.

Buying a Tesla for that money is just asking for problems. Read up on what an MCU replacement costs out of warranty.

 

[Dithermaster]

You should totally be able to get a mid to high mileage 2013 Model S 85 for under $30K seeing as high mileage P85 sell the low 30's. I've got a 2013 P85+ with 60K miles for sale in the mid 30's (and it still have 5 months of CPO warranty left on it and years of drivetrain coverage left). But 30K does seem to be a threshold for many folks; any car below that seems to get snatched up very quickly.

 

[Darren Donovan]

Bolt all the way. It doesn't have the cache of a Tesla vehicle, but it is ultra reliable, which is something that cannot be said about Tesla vehicles. 238 rated range is way more than your need.

 

[john85775]

Bolt all the way. It doesn't have the cache of a Tesla vehicle, but it is ultra reliable, which is something that cannot be said about Tesla vehicles. 238 rated range is way more than your need.

The only problem with buying a Bolt is you will eventually be seen driving it. /s

Seriously though. An off menu Model 3 SR is $35k. With state and federal incentives, it puts the car right around $30k. To me, that's a no brainer.

 

[dannycamps]

Full disclosure - my path to EV ownership went as follows:
2017 Chevy Volt (purchased in early 2016 - what a great gateway car to the EV world)
Traded in the Volt in 2019 for a used 2015 Model S 85D (wrecked in accident )
Replaced the 2015 Model S with a new 2019 Model S 100D

Knowing this, I would absolutely go for the Bolt based on price and range needs. First, Chevy battery tech has been proven pretty reliable (Gen 1 Volts from 2011 show minimal range loss even with well over 100k miles). Second, with the exception of adaptive cruise control which is not available on any trim level of the Bolt, the interior tech is pretty good and supports both Carplay and Android Auto. If you are looking PHEV, I'd check out the Gen 2 Volt Premier trim with ACC.

I would avoid a Leaf (any generation) as they only use passive/air cooling of the battery pack which leads to significant degradation.

Space considerations have to play a part as well. The i3 and Spark only seat four. The Gen 2 Volt seats five but it's a real tight squeeze in the back.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

If considering used, Leaf and i3, why not a Bolt?