Advice Wanted on EV Under $30k: Used S60, Wait for Used M3, Other?

[zannman]

I've done the full EV journey from a Volt to Bolt to Model 3. I took a detour and got a big value on a used Leaf along the way very similar to @cwerdna in late 2015 that I'm still holding onto for similar reasons.

Based on my experience and your frugality, I'd still recommend the Bolt at the $20K price point. I think there's a lot of value with a used Bolt Premier and there aren't any driving factors that will make it unsaleable in 3-4 years if you decide its time to move on. I think it has the most upside on potential resale value a couple of years out - minimizing your % lost.

I would love to jump at a used i3 Rex (in place of the Leaf), but can't based on the maintenance nightmare stories I've heard along the way, broken motor mounts, etc. The reliability of the Leaf and Bolt were too good. I'm not sure there's a price point where it makes sense.

At $10K, either a Gen 1 Volt or Spark EV would work, and neither has glaring downsides that aren't immediately visible, mainly the short EV range.

 

[maximizese]

I've done the full EV journey from a Volt to Bolt to Model 3. I took a detour and got a big value on a used Leaf along the way very similar to @cwerdna in late 2015 that I'm still holding onto for similar reasons.

Based on my experience and your frugality, I'd still recommend the Bolt at the $20K price point. I think there's a lot of value with a used Bolt Premier and there aren't any driving factors that will make it unsaleable in 3-4 years if you decide its time to move on. I think it has the most upside on potential resale value a couple of years out - minimizing your % lost.

I would love to jump at a used i3 Rex (in place of the Leaf), but can't based on the maintenance nightmare stories I've heard along the way, broken motor mounts, etc. The reliability of the Leaf and Bolt were too good. I'm not sure there's a price point where it makes sense.

At $10K, either a Gen 1 Volt or Spark EV would work, and neither has glaring downsides that aren't immediately visible, mainly the short EV range.

Can you elaborate on the i3 issues? The only common issues I see is with the Rex model. Apparently BMW can't even make a low maintenance/reliable generator! Have you heard of any issues with the BEV model outside of the 12V battery (an issue that affects all EV/hybrids)? I ask because I'm encouraging my spendthrift brother to looking into a used i3 instead of a used MX.

 

[zannman]

Can you elaborate on the i3 issues? The only common issues I see is with the Rex model. Apparently BMW can't even make a low maintenance/reliable generator! Have you heard of any issues with the BEV model outside of the 12V battery (an issue that affects all EV/hybrids)? I ask because I'm encouraging my spendthrift brother to looking into a used i3 instead of a used MX.

Poor reliability in general for an EV. The things I've heard about that were potentially big ticket were the steering module, A/C compressor which is integral to all systems, and motor mounts/bolts breaking. All other issues would be just because it's a BMW and parts are hard to get such as unique tires, sensor issues, etc.

I'd recommend checking out the BMW i3 Worldwide FB group as well as the MyBMWi3 forum to get the general feel from owners. Following the FB group is one of the main reasons I'd be afraid to pursue an i3. It's interesting to see owners in whats basically a fan site beg someone to take their car off of their hands.

I can't endorse Gen 2 Volts for similar reliability reasons from what I saw in the GM-Volt forums when I owned a Gen 1. The Leaf just has the poor battery management issue which for me in a cooler climate was easier to ignore if the price was right - otherwise it's about as reliable as they come.

 

[dannycamps]

I found thing video useful when I was looking at the i3. Personally, if the range was a little better and it seated five I may have considered it before I bought my Volt.

 

[maximizese]

I found thing video useful when I was looking at the i3. Personally, if the range was a little better and it seated five I may have considered it before I bought my Volt.

So her 10 minute video summary can be summarized in a few bulletpoints:

Her cons:
1) Color transfer from dark and denim clothes "dirties" the leather seat trim. A baby wipe cleans it right up.

2) Non-adjustable headrest - a common complaint among many new cars.

3) Range fluctuation when switching modes and using HVAC. She literally complains that using the AC lowers the range, yet using fan only does not.

4) Lack of lane assist/lane departure warning. (I prefer not to have either).

5) Stationary rear windows. The rear door windows do not move.

Her 5 pros:

1) EV torque...quick off the line.

2) Roominess

3) Rear doors

4) Sunroof

5) One pedal driving.

My critique of the video review. She rambles and over uses the words "super-duper" and "insane." She also keeps referring to the accelerator pedal as the "gas" pedal. I gave up on the term when I bought a turbodiesel. Besides with one-pedal driving, physics nerds would probably endorse the pedal be referred to as the accelerator variable pedal since it can change the speed in both a positive and negative rate.

 

[IndyGopher]

I've done the full EV journey from a Volt to Bolt to Model 3. I took a detour and got a big value on a used Leaf along the way very similar to @cwerdna in late 2015 that I'm still holding onto for similar reasons.

Based on my experience and your frugality, I'd still recommend the Bolt at the $20K price point. I think there's a lot of value with a used Bolt Premier and there aren't any driving factors that will make it unsaleable in 3-4 years if you decide its time to move on. I think it has the most upside on potential resale value a couple of years out - minimizing your % lost.

I would love to jump at a used i3 Rex (in place of the Leaf), but can't based on the maintenance nightmare stories I've heard along the way, broken motor mounts, etc. The reliability of the Leaf and Bolt were too good. I'm not sure there's a price point where it makes sense.

At $10K, either a Gen 1 Volt or Spark EV would work, and neither has glaring downsides that aren't immediately visible, mainly the short EV range.

Thanks so much for this! I'm definitely leaning used Bolt at this point for many of the reasons you mentioned. I do tend to keep cars for the very long term, but in this case I could definitely see myself ditching the Bolt after 3 - 5 years to perhaps upgrade to a Tesla. Financially I just don't see a brand new M3 or used S making sense for me right now. I could afford it, but I'm not a road-tripper (a HUGE advantage for Teslas) and I can live without some of the creature comforts and the prestige a Tesla provides. The used S maintenance and insurance scares me as well. The Bolt is fun enough to drive, seems reliable (with easy access to maintenance if needed), low on insurance, great range, and just generally fits my personality as a really practical car. Right now I'm planning to wait a bit as 2017's continue coming off lease, but I'll keep reading threads like this where I've posted in various forums. Thanks again!

 

[Kenx008]

Purchased a 2014 CPO i3 Rex after purchasing our model s. Thought it would be great to be all electric. The car was in the shop for almost a month with my 4 months of ownership. The gas generator failed on me 3 times and the 3rd time it left me stranded on the highway in the winter. Had the dealer "fix" the issue but couldn't trust the car and sold it. It was a quite the fun car but reliability wise I would stay away.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I drove the Mercedes EV for 4.5 years (originally the B-Class Electric Drive, then the B250e, now totally cancelled) and it was a nice intro EV because it was peppy and had a great luxurious interior (better than the i3, and I daresay Tesla). Its range is quite hobbled though, like a first generation Leaf, and it didn’t have any fast charging option, so it is strictly a local commuter. I chose it over the i3 at the time (circa 2014) because my kids’ giant infant seats didn’t fit in the i3’s back seat, at all. I drove the i3 and thought it was quite a fun drive though. You can actually transport 4 adults quite comfortably in the B-Class, whereas the i3’s back seat is kind of a joke. Both first generation luxury EVs (BMW, M-B) can be had used for ~$20k though, so if range isn’t a priority and you’ll have another car for long trips (like we did), they’re both much better cars than the Bolt. The seats in the Bolt seem like torture devices for me, and everything inside just feels kind of flimsy to me.

Of course I wanted a Tesla at the time in 2014, but my ~$35k budget then completely ruled one out beyond any shadow of a doubt. Fortunately, all I had to do was wait 5 years and a 2014 Tesla became much more doable for me... If you can make your current car stretch just a bit more, whatever EV you can afford when your current car finally goes will just be that much newer and better.

 

[IndyGopher]

View attachment 440774 I drove the Mercedes EV for 4.5 years (originally the B-Class Electric Drive, then the B250e, now totally cancelled) and it was a nice intro EV because it was peppy and had a great luxurious interior (better than the i3, and I daresay Tesla). Its range is quite hobbled though, like a first generation Leaf, and it didn’t have any fast charging option, so it is strictly a local commuter. I chose it over the i3 at the time (circa 2014) because my kids’ giant infant seats didn’t fit in the i3’s back seat, at all. I drove the i3 and thought it was quite a fun drive though. You can actually transport 4 adults quite comfortably in the B-Class, whereas the i3’s back seat is kind of a joke. Both first generation luxury EVs (BMW, M-B) can be had used for ~$20k though, so if range isn’t a priority and you’ll have another car for long trips (like we did), they’re both much better cars than the Bolt. The seats in the Bolt seem like torture devices for me, and everything inside just feels kind of flimsy to me.

Of course I wanted a Tesla at the time in 2014, but my ~$35k budget then completely ruled one out beyond any shadow of a doubt. Fortunately, all I had to do was wait 5 years and a 2014 Tesla became much more doable for me... If you can make your current car stretch just a bit more, whatever EV you can afford when your current car finally goes will just be that much newer and better.

Thanks for this...great post. I honestly love the idea of the B250e and there's a really nice looking one for sale a few hours from me. That said, I'm a little nervous about the range -- especially in winter, and especially if the battery has degraded even a little -- and getting it serviced in my area where I'm sure very few were ever sold. It's a super sharp looking car though, and it's got the little creature comforts that make it a cut above. I liked the i3 a lot, but I wasn't crazy about its handling on the highway (felt like it was blowing everywhere...and those thin tires) or the pretty ancient looking infotainment. But it's a great car as well. Not as nice on the interior as the MB, but they do both blow away the Bolt on everything but infotainment and possibly seating position/visibility. That said, the Bolt has its merits too with more torque (faster 0-60), zero range anxiety (and probably longer battery healthy given fewer charges), and readily available service. Definitely a totally underwhelming interior with hard plastics everywhere. Ugh, why did they have to cheap out so bad?

BTW, I test drove a M3 SR+ today just to see if I could justify the cost in my mind. I couldn't. It's an amazing car and is no doubt an important step towards changing the world. Kudos to Tesla and everyone who's part of the revolution! I hope to join someday, but I just really couldn't talk myself into stretching my budget $10k at this point in life.

Anyway, good stuff...feel free to continue sharing thoughts! I'm sort of decided on a used Bolt, but I'm sort of resigned to waiting a few months for the 2017s to start coming off lease. I'm sure I can be swayed (or opinion reinforced) in the meantime! And others might find the thread interesting.