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Aero wheels on P3D+
- Thread starter mcbarnet007
- Start date
MasterC17
Active Member
This is what I like to see. As much as I enjoy tracking my car, I want the most efficiency I can get on the street.
On my P3D+ I installed Tire Rack 18X8 Sport Edition A15's (No Longer Available) which barely cleared the rear caliper. I'm running the stock 18" Michelin MXM4's. I also installed a UP Front Lip and have a UP Rear Spoiler on Order. MCS Coilovers dropped the car about 1.5" from stock.
This resulted in about 255wh/mi at a steady 75mph (no headwind, minor elevation changes). A massive improvement over stock P3D+.
I purchased another P3D+ for my wife last month, and am installing my Model S Caliper Retrofit Kit on the front axle (total of 6lb saving over stock) and stock base calipers on the rear axle (my wife will never need the performance brakes). This means I can run the stock 18" Aero Wheels and Tires! I'm also installing a UP Front Lip, UP Rear Spoiler, and Eibach Pro-Kit Springs. Finally, I'll be installing my Rear Diffuser (and recording before and after results). I'm hoping this will get me below 250wh/mi @ 75mph.
If you are running stock PUP Calipers and want 18" Wheels, I recommend looking at Enkei TS-V 18x8 +35 5x114.3. They weigh only 19lbs each.
On my P3D+ I installed Tire Rack 18X8 Sport Edition A15's (No Longer Available) which barely cleared the rear caliper. I'm running the stock 18" Michelin MXM4's. I also installed a UP Front Lip and have a UP Rear Spoiler on Order. MCS Coilovers dropped the car about 1.5" from stock.
This resulted in about 255wh/mi at a steady 75mph (no headwind, minor elevation changes). A massive improvement over stock P3D+.
I purchased another P3D+ for my wife last month, and am installing my Model S Caliper Retrofit Kit on the front axle (total of 6lb saving over stock) and stock base calipers on the rear axle (my wife will never need the performance brakes). This means I can run the stock 18" Aero Wheels and Tires! I'm also installing a UP Front Lip, UP Rear Spoiler, and Eibach Pro-Kit Springs. Finally, I'll be installing my Rear Diffuser (and recording before and after results). I'm hoping this will get me below 250wh/mi @ 75mph.
If you are running stock PUP Calipers and want 18" Wheels, I recommend looking at Enkei TS-V 18x8 +35 5x114.3. They weigh only 19lbs each.
MasterC17
Active Member
It's actually more so the tires than the wheels, but stock 20" vs stock 18" is a big difference for sure as the 18" MXM4 is designed primarily for efficiency, whereas the 20" PS4S is designed for handling/driving characteristics.
This looks awesome. I thought it would look strange with the different wheels front and rear, but it looks very experimental and futuristic like the McLaren Speedtail.
I have a P3D+ and am also trying to make it most efficient for day-to-day driving.
I think the range improvement the OP sees is mostly from the tires. Michelin MXM4 tires have much less rolling resistance compared to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.
While I love the aerocaps and am trying to find a way to mount them on my wheels, I do not believe they are contributing much to the increased efficiency as seen in this test which netted only 3% at 93 MPH; at lower speeds this is presumably less.
Tesla's aero wheels improve range by 3% at high speed, test shows - Electrek
Further evidence that tires matter for efficiency is that I have mounted 18x8.5" Weds Sport TC105N +43 (+38 with 5mm spacer) which weighs only 17 lbs each (41 lbs with tires) which obviously weighs much less than the OEM 20" wheels at 28 lbs each (53 lbs with tires). That's a total savings of 48 lbs of rotating mass and yet I have not seen a significant difference in efficiency. How is this possible? I am currently using 235/45/18 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires.
In similar threads on this forum and other forums, people with Dual Motors (DM and P+/-) who have swapped between 18" OEM wheels/tires and bigger wheel/sporty tire combinations have experienced the same drop in efficiency or vice versa.
I plan on getting the OEM 18" setup for my 3P+ eventually as it seems that Tesla really did their homework and there is not a better solution for efficiency thus far in terms of tires/aerodynamics/weight.
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jkoya
NA2 NSX
So these actually clear the red calipers of the Performance Model with the performance upgrade package ?
Because inertia works both ways. As you accelerate, the higher inertia will require more energy. However, at steady state, the higher inertia will help keep you going as much as slow down you. As you remove throttle, the higher inertia will actually carry you farther than a lighter wheel would, meaning that as long as you don't get into braking (meaning hydraulic, not regen), then you will benefit from the higher inertia while slowing down. Overall, it is likely a net minus, as the acceleration is likely more common, but particularly at steady state, there won't be a difference at all.
I'm interested in the aero's only for trips. Lots of elevation around me which makes a difference. I get around 220 miles of range on the highway. Would love to increase that, and put the fun tires back on for daily driving.
That's interesting because I feel like my car can coast further in neutral on these 18" wheels. I have not done any scientific tests, just a butt feeling.
I would think at steady state, the energy requirements would be less with a lighter wheel/tire combination.
More evidence that aero covers only gain about 3-4% efficiency.
Smooth wheel covers - EcoModder Forum Wiki
That's exciting stuff. I'm glad to hear that those numbers are achievable with the P3D+.
How long have you had the UP spoiler on order? I was debating whether to get one for the aero improvement.
I'm looking to do the Model S caliper retrofit but utilizing CSic rotors for a significant reduction in rotating mass.
Less than 250wh/mi @ 75 MPH would be truly impressive.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I have installed my CrossClimate+ tires for the brutal California climate. (I'll take them off in a couple weeks.)
Konig Dekagram 18x8.5" ET35 wheels with 235/45R18 CrossClimate+ tires. Stud centric mounting; no spacers, no hub-centric ring. Forgot to weigh the new wheel/tire combo but I think it's about 7 pounds savings per wheel (45 pounds vs. 52 pounds). Managed to use the stock lug nuts, but it's not recommended as it is easy to scratch the wheels. Replacing the stock 20" PS4S.
Efficiency:
I have benchmark routes to and from work that I take without AC on and try to control as much as possible.
On these routes, the tires appear to have improved efficiency by about 20-30Wh/mi - looks closer to 30Wh/mi, which is exactly what I expected. I will re-benchmark with the PS4S when I put them back on just to make sure it isn't related to software updates or anything else.
I've reset my recent trip meter (I was at 263Wh/mi over the last 1600 miles on the PS4S). We'll see how that does the next couple weeks then I'll put the PS4S back on.
Ride Quality:
Quite a noticeable harshness (high frequency jitteriness) improvement over the PS4S. This is not a surprise.
Overall the interior seems slightly more quiet and smooth. It's quite pillowy.
Handling:
Pretty squirmy and squishy compared to the PS4S. It's like driving on pillows. No surprises.
Didn't see to have any problem accelerating fast, but I haven't done a timed 0-60 run. I would expect no traction loss for acceleration though obviously braking will be compromised.
Noise:
I did just a brief freeway run. There was no noticeable humming at 70-80mph. I did go over a grooved surface on an interchange, and there was a brief resonance that may have been better damped by the PS4S. But on standard concrete and asphalt surfaces, they are really quite quiet. I would say probably quieter than the PS4S.
General impressions:
Compared to the MXM4's appearance, the sidewalls on these tires are a bit more bulbous. So I would imagine that could make aero slightly worse. Tread pattern looks pretty unique. Nice to see that mountain snowflake. Wonder if these tires will ever see snow? Looked like 9/32" tread depth to start with.
I'll do some more driving and report back my average efficiency over the next couple weeks.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
Thanks for the nice review of the Michelin CrossClimate+ tires. I've been considering the CrossClimate+, Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+.
Where did you purchase the Konig Dekagrams ?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Discount Tire. They were out of stock initially, but I just back-ordered them.
To be clear, the center bore is wide on these wheels, so technically hub-centric is "needed". But it seemed fine to go stud-centric. I was just VERY careful to gradually and evenly tighten the nuts to make sure the wheel seated in a centered fashion.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the detailed summary. I very much look forward to your efficiency report. Since your rims are also 8.5" like OEM 18", would the rim rash protection be the same or better than stock setup? Obviously there stock MX4s rash the rim before the tire which I hate....
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I inadvertently tested it this weekend (I'm getting more bold about parking near curbs now that I don't have the 20s, and the wheels only cost $200). See attached for a representative picture. No rash - this would have destroyed the 20s of course, even though it was only a 2-inch curb - the 20" wheels are happily still immaculate. These tires do seem wider that the MXM4s, with bulbous sides and sidewalls that aren't angled in. The MXM4s seem super narrow regardless of their section width nominal number.
I will post a follow up review beyond my first impressions in a few weeks on these tires. I'll re-review my impressions and may change my opinion on various points above. Efficiency comparisons will be a little difficult to be meaningful, as it has finally got hot in San Diego so now the AC is actually hitting my efficiency (from April to June I didn't use it at all). I'll have to stick with my short benchmark runs there, with no AC use, to try to dial in on the true difference. It's really difficult to do it scientifically.
I will post a follow up review beyond my first impressions in a few weeks on these tires. I'll re-review my impressions and may change my opinion on various points above. Efficiency comparisons will be a little difficult to be meaningful, as it has finally got hot in San Diego so now the AC is actually hitting my efficiency (from April to June I didn't use it at all). I'll have to stick with my short benchmark runs there, with no AC use, to try to dial in on the true difference. It's really difficult to do it scientifically.
Hi jkoya, what did you end up buying? I'm extremely hesitating in deciding between Michelin CrossClimate+ and Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ now (50/50 and not even 51/49), and I would like to know your decision, so I can take your advice from that.
I live in Houston, TX, a dry area. However, there are a lot of heavy rains and thunderstorms here, in which the CrossClimate+ may have better grip and good performance, but the A/S 3+ is also doing well in the rain.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Haven’t posted detailed follow up...but:
CrossClimates actually relatively loud compared to stock PS4S.
Not that efficient - though I believe that is partially due to the wheels themselves being less aero than the stock 20”, as my city numbers were generally pretty good. Need to figure out how to hack some Aeros onto those Dekagrams.
CrossClimates actually relatively loud compared to stock PS4S.
Not that efficient - though I believe that is partially due to the wheels themselves being less aero than the stock 20”, as my city numbers were generally pretty good. Need to figure out how to hack some Aeros onto those Dekagrams.
jkoya
NA2 NSX
I haven't purchased yet, but I am leaning toward the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. I had them on a VW R32 and I was happy with them, but like you I am still undecided......
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