After 5-weeks, I turned FSD Beta off!

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[drtimhill]

I cannot ask for my money back because I did not purchase the FSD, I am using enhanced autopilot in the Model 3 and Mobile Eye, which I love on My Model X, older version. My point remains that they should not charge for it, they should perfect it and put it in production and if they don't have an alpha base it is dangerous to simply put it out there and see how it performs.

I'm somewhat concerned that you brand FSD "very dangerous" without any direct experience.

It seems to me your only complaint is that other people should not have paid for FSD while it's in beta. But that is their choice. You chose not to, which is fine, but others chose otherwise. Why is that a concern of yours?

 

[Dewg]

This is a great illustration of emotional crowd mentality.

But it's for the children!

 

[st_o_p]

I'm late to this thread, but just want to say - I did exactly the same as the OP, turned the FSD off.

From the few times I used it I found it useless on city streets. I have to spend way more attention and nerves with that thing on than when it's off.
Also, half the times I tried to turn it on it refuses; it is kind of embarrassing (and kind of dangerous) trying to turn it on so you can show somebody how it works, and it just keeps beeping and not taking control while the car goes any which way.

Since I ended up never using it anyway - there was no point of it being on. The kicker was when I tried to turn on autopilot on highway and it refused because of some FSD reason (camera covered or whatever). Not only it's not helping - it's obstructing the actual useful functionality (highway autopilot).

 

[ewoodrick]

I'm late to this thread, but just want to say - I did exactly the same as the OP, turned the FSD off.

From the few times I used it I found it useless on city streets. I have to spend way more attention and nerves with that thing on than when it's off.
Also, half the times I tried to turn it on it refuses; it is kind of embarrassing (and kind of dangerous) trying to turn it on so you can show somebody how it works, and it just keeps beeping and not taking control while the car goes any which way.

Since I ended up never using it anyway - there was no point of it being on. The kicker was when I tried to turn on autopilot on highway and it refused because of some FSD reason (camera covered or whatever). Not only it's not helping - it's obstructing the actual useful functionality (highway autopilot).

It must have a view of a lined road to turn it on. If you are too close to the car in front of you or on an unlined neighborhood street, it won't enable.

Using FSD is kind of like teaching your kid how to drive. They don't drive exactly as you do and when they do anything different, they scare the crap out of you. But the more you drive with it, the more that you get used to it and can predict what it is about to do.

 

[BrendonHolt]

Alpha code, which is a term that really isn't used in general. Would be considered code that is internal and has not been released out of the doors. If you must use the term, there have been numerous alpha releases internally that never make it to the restricted Beta testers group. Just look a V11! How many versions of it haven't made it to the field?

Ok, but someone has to use it, some of the issues that show up in beta clearly look to be alpha. That said, at least an answer to the question. Basically, internal employees test this on specific Tesla's.

 

[BrendonHolt]

38,000 people DIE each year from auto accidents. That doesn't include the people that are hurt. And that doesn't include the number of fender benders.
Doesn't seem like humans are doing that great.

But look at the FSD stats, In the "very dangerous" Tesla, there are 6 times less accidents.

Did a post on this before, the math is simple here. There are 105 Million Vehicles on the Road in the USA alone. Worldwide there are 1.1 Billion Registered Cars, but not all are on the road.

There are like 400,000 registered FSD Users, all of which, are mostly not using it. So yes, statistically 40,000 deaths is very low given the number of vehicles on the road.

To me this is a terrible argument to even be had, we should demand and expect the car with all it's sensors and always alert capability should be MUCH SAFER then humans.

Sadly, that is not the case. I feel confident at some point it will be, but we have a ways to go.

 

[BrendonHolt]

FSD vs Non-FSD driving does statistically have some studies that show Tesla's are safer with FSD on then off. The issue is that is very conservative, which in the end causes the car to do things Humans would never do, causing others to have an accident.

Like I said if everyone was on FSD, the cars would have virtually no accidents at all. Also, my position is that humans are more safe then you might think, statistically, however, CELL PHONES have severely changed that in a negative direction.

FSD is good for Cell Phone Users not PAYING ATTENTION to the road, on that we cannot debate.

 

[drtimhill]

FSD vs Non-FSD driving does statistically have some studies that show Tesla's are safer with FSD on then off. The issue is that is very conservative, which in the end causes the car to do things Humans would never do, causing others to have an accident.

Again, you are making a claim with no evidence to back it. You can't make up idle speculations to "prove" that FSD is unsafe. I'm sure there has been the occasional incident such as you describe, but probably most come down to the Tesla being rear-ended .. hardly something unique to ADAS cars, and not the fault of the Tesla, since driving too close to the car in front is endemic among the human population.

 

[Supcom]

If you are too close to the car in front of you or on an unlined neighborhood street, it won't enable.

I regularly enable FSDb on my neighborhood streets. No lines of any sort. Two unmarked lanes with a curb on either side. No problem at all.

 

[st_o_p]

It must have a view of a lined road to turn it on. If you are too close to the car in front of you or on an unlined neighborhood street, it won't enable.

Using FSD is kind of like teaching your kid how to drive. They don't drive exactly as you do and when they do anything different, they scare the crap out of you. But the more you drive with it, the more that you get used to it and can predict what it is about to do.

I regularly enable FSDb on my neighborhood streets. No lines of any sort. Two unmarked lanes with a curb on either side. No problem at all.

Thanks for the tips. At this point I've given up on the FSD, it simply is not worth the aggravation.

I will say this - the controls and user interface are too confusing. It works for autopilot on highway but not for FSD on a regular street. Keep trying to turn it on, did it double-click or single-click or tripple-click, is the car now driving itself, or is it not auto-steering, is there error msg somewhere and all this while you're still trying to watch the road. You let the car autosteer but the street is curving and the auto-steer didn't take, and the car is going somewhere where it shouldn't. The whole thing appears custom-designed to confuse and irritate people - like a bad comedy movie.

 

[ewoodrick]

FSD vs Non-FSD driving does statistically have some studies that show Tesla's are safer with FSD on then off. The issue is that is very conservative, which in the end causes the car to do things Humans would never do, causing others to have an accident.

Yea right! Ever seen some 90 year olds drive?

 

[KArnold]

Keep trying to turn it on, did it double-click or single-click or tripple-click, is the car now driving itself, or is it not auto-steering, is there error msg somewhere

I'm not intending to be rude but you need to understand some of the details in FSDb. Maybe watch a few hours on YT, focusing on both the sounds and the MCU display. Even the colors are significant. There are indicators for each of your scenarios.

It's well known we are Beta testers. We tend to be people attracted to technology on a "how do they do that?" mentality. There's a whole different group that says "not interested until it's a fully baked product". It's not a right/wrong thing - it's a different thing.

In terms of your questions, I'd say that's also valuable feedback to Tesla. But either dig into the details of how this works or wait a while to see if it better fits your needs. You may not want to be a beta tester - nothing wrong about that.

 

[ewoodrick]

Thanks for the tips. At this point I've given up on the FSD, it simply is not worth the aggravation.

I will say this - the controls and user interface are too confusing. It works for autopilot on highway but not for FSD on a regular street. Keep trying to turn it on, did it double-click or single-click or tripple-click, is the car now driving itself, or is it not auto-steering, is there error msg somewhere and all this while you're still trying to watch the road. You let the car autosteer but the street is curving and the auto-steer didn't take, and the car is going somewhere where it shouldn't. The whole thing appears custom-designed to confuse and irritate people - like a bad comedy movie.

You are making it so much harder than it is.
If you have bought FSD and have the beta turned on, then it will cover highways and surface streets. I do both all the time.
To enable, double click right stalk when the car can see the line in the road.

Is the car driving itself, look at the steering wheel icon in the upper left, is it there and is it blue?

If you have a route set, then it should follow the route. If you don't have a route set, then it tends to go straight. At a dead end, it tends to make a random decision.

It is really easy to use, double click, hear the dong dink and it is enable. If you hear the dink dong, then it turned off.
If you move the wheel, it will turn FSD off but leave TACC on.
If you hit the break (or up click), it will turn all automation off.

 

[Electroman]

We were going 55 in a 40 and he was tail gating me.

How did you manage to go 55 on a 40 mile zone with FSD or even auto pilot?

 

[Electroman]

Thanks for the tips. At this point I've given up on the FSD, it simply is not worth the aggravation.

I will say this - the controls and user interface are too confusing. It works for autopilot on highway but not for FSD on a regular street. Keep trying to turn it on, did it double-click or single-click or tripple-click, is the car now driving itself, or is it not auto-steering, is there error msg somewhere and all this while you're still trying to watch the road. You let the car autosteer but the street is curving and the auto-steer didn't take, and the car is going somewhere where it shouldn't. The whole thing appears custom-designed to confuse and irritate people - like a bad comedy movie.

Never seen a more ignorant post on this topic !!

 

[BrendonHolt]

Yea right! Ever seen some 90 year olds drive?

Yes I have, that said, let me count on this thread alone, you have attacked or been sarcastic to two separate users, me and Stop.

Is it the intent to totally discount what others say. That will clearly get you well past your 7.6K posts but will not go a long way to having civil discourse on this forum.

To be clear, the consumer Stop simply stated he turned it off and why. He may be completely wrong, but a LOT of consumers are turning it off.

You should at least recognize him on this, but I get it, use sarcasm, his opinion is that of many consumers.

Calling a forum member ignorant is of no productive use. At least your other question on speed was a question on how the forum member did something.
He could respond that it did it, and you could argue it could not, but this is at least not a direct attack on another member.

 

[ewoodrick]

Yes I have, that said, let me count on this thread alone, you have attacked or been sarcastic to two separate users, me and Stop.

Is it the intent to totally discount what others say. That will clearly get you well past your 7.6K posts but will not go a long way to having civil discourse on this forum.

To be clear, the consumer Stop simply stated he turned it off and why. He may be completely wrong, but a LOT of consumers are turning it off.

You should at least recognize him on this, but I get it, use sarcasm, his opinion is that of many consumers.

Calling a forum member ignorant is of no productive use. At least your other question on speed was a question on how the forum member did something.
He could respond that it did it, and you could argue it could not, but this is at least not a direct attack on another member.

I was replying to YOUR statement that "causes the car to do things Humans would never do,"

You are making statements as facts, that just aren't facts.
I have absolutely no issue with a post "I turned FSD off"
But I do have issues with "I turned FSD off because it is dangerous."
And I have no problems with "I turned FSD of because I don't feel as the safety driver, that I intervene in time."

There seems to be some concept that FSD has to essentially be perfect and that every move that it makes the driver agrees with. That's pretty much the furthest from the truth.

Prime example, take a NYC taxi. If you aren't familiar with them, they will often scare the crap out of you! But do they get you from point A to point B safely? Amazingly, yes. Are you often ready to jump over the seat and take the wheel away from them? Most of the time.
But people who take NYC cabs are used to it. They get into the cab and don't even think about the drive.

Tesla FSD isn't dangerous (compared to humans). People just aren't used to how it drives. It takes some time to get used to and many folks just don't have the reaction time to intervene adequately. I understand that. But just because they can't intervene doesn't mean that FSD is dangerous.

After living with FSD and its predecessors for 5 years, I grew up with it. I've learned how it acts. I can generally tell you what it's going to do. I also know that it is leaps and bounds beyond where it was 1 year ago, and the year before that and so on. Just today I had a car crossing to the right on a 4 lane with center turn lane road in front of me. It wasn't too long ago that this would have triggered a braking event. But today, the car slightly slowed and then sped up, barely noticeable.

Moving over for vehicles on the side of the road is relatively new. And a great example of one poster indicating that the car was about to have an accident in the situation, but from what I know, the poster just didn't trust the car and aborted the maneuver before the car had a chance to perform it. This is a prime example of how the car may not drive the way you drive as well as not having the reaction time to supervise the car's operation.

Give me facts and I'll shut up. Give me opinions, you may get a fact or an opinion back.

"FSD is dangerous" can only be a fact if you add "but safer than many humans" to it.

 

[drtimhill]

Yes I have, that said, let me count on this thread alone, you have attacked or been sarcastic to two separate users, me and Stop.

Is it the intent to totally discount what others say. That will clearly get you well past your 7.6K posts but will not go a long way to having civil discourse on this forum.

To be clear, the consumer Stop simply stated he turned it off and why. He may be completely wrong, but a LOT of consumers are turning it off.

You should at least recognize him on this, but I get it, use sarcasm, his opinion is that of many consumers.

Calling a forum member ignorant is of no productive use. At least your other question on speed was a question on how the forum member did something.
He could respond that it did it, and you could argue it could not, but this is at least not a direct attack on another member.

Come now, it was a mild bit of humor, that's all. If that was an "attack" I don't think you've ever been on any other social media (and THAT was just humor as well).

 

[st_o_p]

I'm not intending to be rude but you need to understand some of the details in FSDb. Maybe watch a few hours on YT, focusing on both the sounds and the MCU display. Even the colors are significant. There are indicators for each of your scenarios.

It's well known we are Beta testers. We tend to be people attracted to technology on a "how do they do that?" mentality. There's a whole different group that says "not interested until it's a fully baked product". It's not a right/wrong thing - it's a different thing.

In terms of your questions, I'd say that's also valuable feedback to Tesla. But either dig into the details of how this works or wait a while to see if it better fits your needs. You may not want to be a beta tester - nothing wrong about that.

Not arguing - maybe I'm missing a lot. So where exactly is all this information I need to know??
It's not in any manual - not in the one that came with the car 4 years ago. I tried searching YouTube for Tesla FSD. All videos start after the FSD has been turned on. I really spent an hour looking for the answer of that specific question - how do you turn FSD on - and didn't get it until I asked on this forum.

I may be ignorant - but Tesla hasn't exactly gone out of its way to educate its users.

 

[st_o_p]

Never seen a more ignorant post on this topic !!

Sure buddy. I love you too.
If you're not going to contribute to the discussion - why post??