After seeing the FSD videos, do you think it will work well on MCU1 cars?

[whitex]

Given that my MCU1 takes forever to reroute if I miss a turn(with Dashcam plugged-in), I highly doubt that MCU1 is capable of providing real-time map data for FSD(as of now it seems that FSD beta after redesign is still heavily dependent on Maps and GPS), which means FSD is dependent on MCU very much. Any additional latency in tasks performed by MCU to support decision making for FSD computer is not going to be possible from MCU1 imho. More details here.

Until the MCU is purely used for "optionally" rendering what it sees, a fast MCU is deemed a necessity for FSD. Looks like Tesla cannot do FSD without a decent MCU(GPS, Nav, Maps, Speed limit, etc., is still heavily relied from MCU computations for current FSD design), we might get a free MCU2 upgrade after all(atleast we have a case for the lawsuit)


https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1320052226069594112

You're going to have to sue. Tesla giving away MCU2 would cost too much and would enrage the mob who already paid for it out of their own pocket, so Tesla would probably end up having to refund them too. Refunding FSD would be even more expensive, except maybe for people who bought it during one of the end-of-quarter firesales. I don't think Elon thought this far ahead - he actually believed his own hype that AP2.0 has all the hardware ever needed for driverless FSD.

 

[hybridbear]

Given that my MCU1 takes forever to reroute if I miss a turn(with Dashcam plugged-in), I highly doubt that MCU1 is capable of providing real-time map data for FSD(as of now it seems that FSD beta after redesign is still heavily dependent on Maps and GPS), which means FSD is dependent on MCU very much. Any additional latency in tasks performed by MCU to support decision making for FSD computer is not going to be possible from MCU1 imho. More details here.

Until the MCU is purely used for "optionally" rendering what it sees, a fast MCU is deemed a necessity for FSD. Looks like Tesla cannot do FSD without a decent MCU(GPS, Nav, Maps, Speed limit, etc., is still heavily relied from MCU computations for current FSD design), we might get a free MCU2 upgrade after all(atleast we have a case for the lawsuit)


https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1320052226069594112

You're going to have to sue. Tesla giving away MCU2 would cost too much and would enrage the mob who already paid for it out of their own pocket, so Tesla would probably end up having to refund them too. Refunding FSD would be even more expensive, except maybe for people who bought it during one of the end-of-quarter firesales. I don't think Elon thought this far ahead - he actually believed his own hype that AP2.0 has all the hardware ever needed for driverless FSD.

I unfortunately believe you're both right, FSD will not work completely on MCU1 cars & Tesla will refuse to upgrade MCU1 cars to MCU2 in order to deliver functioning FSD until they are forced via lawsuit. I also agree that this was poor planning on their part, but this may be some of why they're now increasing the price of FSD so much, it's to cover the upcoming costs they know they'll eventually be forced to pay in upgrading early owners who paid less but require more investment from Tesla.

 

[ks1972]

I unfortunately believe you're both right, FSD will not work completely on MCU1 cars & Tesla will refuse to upgrade MCU1 cars to MCU2 in order to deliver functioning FSD until they are forced via lawsuit. I also agree that this was poor planning on their part, but this may be some of why they're now increasing the price of FSD so much, it's to cover the upcoming costs they know they'll eventually be forced to pay in upgrading early owners who paid less but require more investment from Tesla.

Poor planning, lol
Tesla is run by a pot smoking man child, word planning is not in his dictionary.

 

[Super_Popular]

Poor planning, lol
Tesla is run by a pot smoking man child, word planning is not in his dictionary.

If you actually watched the video and have ever smoked pot you would know that her didn't actually inhale.

 

[c0smicdirt]

I unfortunately believe you're both right, FSD will not work completely on MCU1 cars & Tesla will refuse to upgrade MCU1 cars to MCU2 in order to deliver functioning FSD until they are forced via lawsuit. I also agree that this was poor planning on their part, but this may be some of why they're now increasing the price of FSD so much, it's to cover the upcoming costs they know they'll eventually be forced to pay in upgrading early owners who paid less but require more investment from Tesla.

Not necessarily poor planning. Probably they knew all the while and still kept on stating it's possible. Rather than lose trust by stating "we were wrong, we can't upgrade 2016 to 2017 Teslas to FSD" and feeding the short sellers/TSLAQ which would be bring the stock down and had the potential to bring the sales down and would have contributed to company going bankrupt, instead the approach Elon/Tesla took was to maintain it's possible and they will do it. And then when the time to retrofit comes, Tesla would have sold tons of cars and profitable, with no threat from short sellers, they could afford to retrofit some 30k cars from their own pocket(out of good will or after a lost lawsuit). I would say that's smart.

 

[ks1972]

If you actually watched the video and have ever smoked pot you would know that her didn't actually inhale.

I smoked pot for 19 years, every day. But, that was when I lived in another country.

There’s a reason he doesn’t want to move to Texas despite how much he hates California
Elon Musk Says He's Not Leaving California Despite Tesla Announcement

 

[whitex]

Not necessarily poor planning. Probably they knew all the while and still kept on stating it's possible. Rather than lose trust by stating "we were wrong, we can't upgrade 2016 to 2017 Teslas to FSD" and feeding the short sellers/TSLAQ which would be bring the stock down and had the potential to bring the sales down and would have contributed to company going bankrupt, instead the approach Elon/Tesla took was to maintain it's possible and they will do it. And then when the time to retrofit comes, Tesla would have sold tons of cars and profitable, with no threat from short sellers, they could afford to retrofit some 30k cars from their own pocket(out of good will or after a lost lawsuit). I would say that's smart.

People who paid for FSD in 2016 should be first in line, not last. Not to mention that anyone who paid between 2016-2019 actually paid for a much more capable FSD, since Tesla neutered FSD definition in March of 2019. And yet, they are getting a less capable version for their money.

What you are saying is dishonesty is the best policy, as long as it saves you from bankruptcy. So Bernie Madoff did nothing wrong, he just kept himself from going bankrupt so that one day he could pay people back, right?

 

[bob_p]

What people forget on MCU1 vehicles is that MCU1 vehicles have TWO processors - one for the primary console display and a second for the dashboard display.

The dashboard processor is actually doing very little - mostly displaying static images and text.

There should be enough horsepower in the dashboard processor to implement the visuals that are shown in the recent FSD beta videos on the MCU2 dashboard or 3/Y console displays.

The issue isn't performance, it's more likely software compatibility.

MCU1 and MCU2 use different processor architectures - so the source code isn't completely compatible, requiring some changes in order to get software to run on the MCU1 processors - and likely more so for anything that's graphics intensive (which would be the case for FSD visualization).

So it's understandable that Tesla will focus first on MCU2 visualization and if it requires much effort, defer work on MCU1 visualization.

Plus, what we are seeing in the current FSD beta release will very likely be changed before the wide distribution Musk has promised in a few months. And when that happens, Tesla will probably do what they've already done with HW3/MCU1 - provide a reasonable display to support driving under FSD.

Though, with HW3/MCU1 vehicles an increasingly small percentage of vehicles Tesla is supporting for FSD, at some point, it may be more cost effective for Tesla to work out a reasonable MCU2 upgrade for those vehicles (including FM/HD/XM radio) than investing any software resources to support FSD on MCU1...

 

[hybridbear]

People who paid for FSD in 2016 should be first in line, not last. Not to mention that anyone who paid between 2016-2019 actually paid for a much more capable FSD, since Tesla neutered FSD definition in March of 2019. And yet, they are getting a less capable version for their money.

Haha I like this because it benefits us, we have a November 2016 build Model S with the FSD computer. The window sticker says EAP & we bought FSD in 2018 when the price was reduced to $3k additional over EAP (a total of $8k since EAP was $5k on window sticker).

Not necessarily poor planning. Probably they knew all the while and still kept on stating it's possible. Rather than lose trust by stating "we were wrong, we can't upgrade 2016 to 2017 Teslas to FSD" and feeding the short sellers/TSLAQ which would be bring the stock down and had the potential to bring the sales down and would have contributed to company going bankrupt, instead the approach Elon/Tesla took was to maintain it's possible and they will do it. And then when the time to retrofit comes, Tesla would have sold tons of cars and profitable, with no threat from short sellers, they could afford to retrofit some 30k cars from their own pocket(out of good will or after a lost lawsuit). I would say that's smart.

I think you’re right. I think they know they can’t deliver FSD to MCU1 cars, but they are not ready to admit it yet. I don’t know if they’ll do it out of goodwill, though, I think it will take a lawsuit.

The issue isn't performance, it's more likely software compatibility.

MCU1 and MCU2 use different processor architectures - so the source code isn't completely compatible, requiring some changes in order to get software to run on the MCU1 processors - and likely more so for anything that's graphics intensive (which would be the case for FSD visualization).

So it's understandable that Tesla will focus first on MCU2 visualization and if it requires much effort, defer work on MCU1 visualization.

Plus, what we are seeing in the current FSD beta release will very likely be changed before the wide distribution Musk has promised in a few months. And when that happens, Tesla will probably do what they've already done with HW3/MCU1 - provide a reasonable display to support driving under FSD.

Though, with HW3/MCU1 vehicles an increasingly small percentage of vehicles Tesla is supporting for FSD, at some point, it may be more cost effective for Tesla to work out a reasonable MCU2 upgrade for those vehicles (including FM/HD/XM radio) than investing any software resources to support FSD on MCU1...

Hopefully Tesla will reach that point where they decide to upgrade the MCU1 cars who have paid for FSD. Although, considering that they do not seem to really be improving the MCU1 driving display, I don’t think they are devoting a lot of resources to that now for it to become a resource issue.

 

[whitex]

I think you’re right. I think they know they can’t deliver FSD to MCU1 cars, but they are not ready to admit it yet. I don’t know if they’ll do it out of goodwill, though, I think it will take a lawsuit.

And when it goes to court, Tesla will show the fine print from the original FSD since 2016:

Then they will get some judge to buy that they are still working on it, so those who bought FSD just need to be patient, or shell out $2,500 to get it "sooner". Then eventually they will tell people that their cars are too old to be safe for FSD. Game over.

 

[ThomasD]

So Tesla is telling you that you can only make money on their network Even though it's your car Ok they own the software and hardware Which part of the car will Tesla let you do what you want when you want

 

[whitex]

So Tesla is telling you that you can only make money on their network Even though it's your car Ok they own the software and hardware Which part of the car will Tesla let you do what you want when you want

Neh, it was just Elon hyping FSD up by implying you could have your 2016 Tesla drive for Uber or Lyft and make you money. None of this happened, nor it is close to happening. 2016 cars will turn to dust before they drive all by themselves earning money for their owners.

 

[bob_p]

The FSD software runs on the FSD processor. The MCU is used for the user interface. The limitation for MCU1 is having the developers implement the visualization for the MCU1's CPU and GPU - which should be capable enough to display what is presented with MCU2 - the challenge is modifying the source code to run on a different system.

If Tesla decides to limit FSD visualization on MCU1, that won't prevent FSD from running - only what you see on the dashboard display.

 

[uspearls]

The FSD software runs on the FSD processor. The MCU is used for the user interface. The limitation for MCU1 is having the developers implement the visualization for the MCU1's CPU and GPU - which should be capable enough to display what is presented with MCU2 - the challenge is modifying the source code to run on a different system.

If Tesla decides to limit FSD visualization on MCU1, that won't prevent FSD from running - only what you see on the dashboard display.

Yes, but I think it's about more than just the visualization. Until Tesla gets to full Level 5 autonomous driving AND regulatory acceptance, the driver's IC is critical for visual cues. In other words, any FSD driver who is not fully trusting that their MS really "sees" what they see (and that should be all of us right now) will be using the IC as a reference tool, to help decide when to intervene and when to "trust" the vehicle. For example, if my car suddenly brakes while in AP, I'm quickly checking the IC as well as my mirrors to see what's going on. I'm getting better now about reacting to phantom braking on the freeway for example, but If I'm missing key elements in the IC that could be a safety issue (now it's mostly cones and trash cans but who knows what may be missing in MCU1 soon).

 

[viper2ko]

Yes, but I think it's about more than just the visualization. Until Tesla gets to full Level 5 autonomous driving AND regulatory acceptance, the driver's IC is critical for visual cues. In other words, any FSD driver who is not fully trusting that their MS really "sees" what they see (and that should be all of us right now) will be using the IC as a reference tool, to help decide when to intervene and when to "trust" the vehicle. For example, if my car suddenly brakes while in AP, I'm quickly checking the IC as well as my mirrors to see what's going on. I'm getting better now about reacting to phantom braking on the freeway for example, but If I'm missing key elements in the IC that could be a safety issue (now it's mostly cones and trash cans but who knows what may be missing in MCU1 soon).

That and FSD relies on navigation to determine when and where to turn. nav on MCU1 has become almost unusable

 

[blackhawk]

Maybe I’m watching the wrong videos but nothing in that beta gives me any confidence FSD is any closer to release than it has been in the past.

If anything, Tesla is proving the point that autonomous vehicles might be more like fusion power, always a few decades away.

I wouldn’t worry about MCU1 support until FSD is actually released - which is probably not during the lifetime of your car. I would be more worried about the money Tesla took for the feature which doesn’t exist.

 

[bob_p]

Enhanced Driving Visualization is a feature available only on MCU2.

While operating FSD in driver assist mode, the driver can only monitor the safety of FSD if there is enough information on the dashboard display to confirm the FSD system is correctly detecting the current driving situation.

Even if MCU1 doesn't get the "Enhanced" visualization, Tesla must provide at least enough visualization on MCU1 to operate FSD safely - and if they can't do that, then that's going to be a problem.

Today, MCU1 has enough visualization (compared to MCU2) to operate the current AP/EAP/FSD software. When Tesla released the stop light/street sign detection because we had an MCU1/FSD vehicle, I was concerned that we wouldn't be able to see the stop lights/street signs on MCU1 - and that turned out not to be the case.

So we won't know what Tesla plans to do with the next FSD release on MCU1 vehicles until either they make a statement on that, or the software is released on MCU1.

If/when Tesla ever gets approval to operate FSD without driver control, at that point, the visualizations won't be as important, because the software will be expected to operate the vehicle safely with or without someone sitting in the driving position and monitoring FSD operation. Years from now, it's very likely we'll see FSD vehicles without any "dashboard" display while FSD is in operation...

 

[Super_Popular]

Watch the video. He holds it in his mouth then blows it out, he DID NOT INHALE. Anyone who smokes anything can clearly see this.

 

[dbldwn02]

June 2021
Any MCU1/FSD betas out in the wild yet?

 

[hybridbear]

June 2021
Any MCU1/FSD betas out in the wild yet?

I really doubt it. I expect that when there is a wider roll-out of FSD features beyond the beta testers that AP1 cars will be left out.