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  • The final cut of TMC Podcast #34 is available now with topics timestamped. We covered Tesla's rollercoaster prices, Toyota pushing junk science, Mike's new Model 3, Optimizing track mode for snow driving, FSD V11 apparently coming by the end of this week, and more. You can watch and check out the chat replay on YouTube.

After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

When would you consider initiating/joining a class action lawsuit for Tesla failure to deliver FSD?

  • Already enquiring with/engaging legal services

    Votes: 27 6.3%
  • End of 2021

    Votes: 101 23.7%
  • End of 2022

    Votes: 80 18.8%
  • 2023 - 2025

    Votes: 41 9.6%
  • 2025 - 2030

    Votes: 18 4.2%
  • After 2030

    Votes: 11 2.6%
  • Never

    Votes: 136 31.9%
  • Other - see comments

    Votes: 12 2.8%

  • Total voters
    426

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
16,387
41,500
Seattle, WA
All the more perplexing that we haven't seen more actually launched. I thought TSLAQ shorts had serious money behind them, but now I'm thinking they're relatively poor, don't own a Tesla, and are relegated to posting FUD anonymously on forums and Twitter.
There are the poor (or probably bankrupt by now) retail TSLAQ - and then the deep money hedge funds etc. The poorer retail ones would have liked to get a class action suit going - but they don't have the needed strength - both legal and actual # of Tesla owners supporting the case. Hedge funds don't have the patience for cases that can drag on for years. They try to get their dirty work done by SEC.
 

Cyberax

Member
Supporting Member
Jul 28, 2015
453
370
Seattle, WA
Actually, we don't have to speculate. We have seen exactly what they will deliver. There are hundreds of videos and looks to me - except for well known complicated situations fsd beta drives just fine. Much better than current AP.
So basically useless in actual city situations. You still have to be extra-careful when driving. It's "Smart Summon" all over again.
 
Do you use AP in the city - at all ?
I'd hope not, given the Tesla Manual tells you this is absolutely prohibited. Safe drivers obey manuals, right?

Hardly useless.

I expect FSD beta to be a LOT more useful.
I keep seeing people leave detail free descriptions like this.
Exactly what will be "useful" about FSD beta beyond what AP already does? The "beta" that Tesla is so concerned will crash your car that they are only willing to give it to the "safest" drivers? If it's useful and functional, why is that restriction needed?

We assume it is not a replacement for any kind of attention (we won't know until they release a manual for it). Based on videos, it still makes many mistakes that require very fast intervention that no human would make, so it appears to need more attention than not using it. It appears to increase the complexity put on the driver, not reduce it.

Useful means you can do something you couldn't before that tool existed. How is "FSD" "Beta" useful?

(I agree it will be very entertaining, and may be indicative of a useful product in the future, but at first release? It's just entertainment, or as some people argue, data collection for future improvements)
 

EVNow

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2009
16,387
41,500
Seattle, WA
I'd hope not, given the Tesla Manual tells you this is absolutely prohibited. Safe drivers obey manuals, right?
Thats obsolete, one would guess seeing as how they added city driving features like traffic lights, stop signs etc. They even realized some revenue because of these features.

But, they haven't removed the obsolete text. Who knows whether by design or oversight.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,078
35,309
NC
I keep seeing people leave detail free descriptions like this.
Exactly what will be "useful" about FSD beta beyond what AP already does? The "beta" that Tesla is so concerned will crash your car that they are only willing to give it to the "safest" drivers? If it's useful and functional, why is that restriction needed?


Naah, you've been given specific answers too, you just don't like em.

I mentioned FSD Beta could likely do 100% of my drive to/from work... since it already does 90+% of it via the released code, since about that much of the drive is highway.

What's left is a few miles from house to highway, mostly easy rural roads with light traffic.... and on the other end a couple miles of again light traffic, with controlled intersections, from highway to workplace.
 
But, they haven't removed the obsolete text. Who knows whether by design or oversight.
It's not "obsolete" if it was left by design. In that case it's just purposefully confusing, and absolutely not the way that you document a safety involved system. Tesla wants it to be very, very clear that AP isn't autonomous in any way. They tell you this in the manual, and use that as a defense of anyone that misuses it? But then they also tell you to not use it on city streets, even though you are supposed to use it on city streets? Not a good look.


Naah, you've been given specific answers too, you just don't like em.

I mentioned FSD Beta could likely do 100% of my drive to/from work... since it already does 90+% of it via the released code, since about that much of the drive is highway.
Saying "I hope can drive to work without disengaging AP" tells me what you can do with it, but not why that is useful. What will you do with this newfound capability that you could not before? Tesla is telling you that you must pay MORE attention than before, because this is absolutely not an autonomous system and can only be deployed to the very safest drivers. How is this "useful?".

If it's so useful, why can't it be more widely deployed?
 
  • Funny
Reactions: bhzmark

Cyberax

Member
Supporting Member
Jul 28, 2015
453
370
Seattle, WA
Do you use AP in the city - at all ?
No (except on grade-separated highways).

Hardly useless.
Hard useless. Or uselessly hard. But definitely useless.

I expect FSD beta to be a LOT more useful.
Sure. As a toy.

I have nothing against toys, mind you. I like buying toys for myself. But right now all the Tesla (company) behavior is rubbing me the wrong way.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: bhzmark

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,078
35,309
NC
Saying "I hope can drive to work without disengaging AP" tells me what you can do with it, but not why that is useful.

It literally is though.

Just like the last several times this was explained to you.

You don't like the answer so you keep pretending you don't understand it.


What will you do with this newfound capability that you could not before?


This doesn't even make sense as a question.

"Sure it can do something it couldn't before- but how does that let you do something you couldn't before?!"



If it's so useful, why can't it be more widely deployed?

Uh.. it IS about to be more widely deployed.
 
"Sure it can do something it couldn't before- but how does that let you do something you couldn't before?!"
Yes, but the only use of that is human entertainment. Not safety, not the ability to read emails as you drive, not any kind of tool. It's exactly the same as the fart noises. Your argument that the the fart noises are "useful" because they didn't exist before. I doubt most people would say that.

Your inability to explain how you will use CSA's hopeful ability to take you from home to work without touching the wheel to do something you couldn't do before means it's pure entertainment. It's not a useful tool, because you actually have to work harder to use it, but it's worth it because it entertains you.

Uh.. it IS about to be more widely deployed.
Yeah, I mean wider than 1,000 more people, which is all Elon is at as of this morning. You'd think if you had a useful, safe tool, you'd want to send it out to more than 0.05% of your customers. But if you have entertainment... Well, lotteries do seem to entertain a lot of people.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
17,078
35,309
NC
Yes, but the only use of that is human entertainment.

No, the use is it does the physical act of driving for me.

Are you not familiar with how the system works or something? Might wanna see to that before talking about it further.

Your inability to explain how you will use CSA's hopeful ability to take you from home to work without touching the wheel to do something you couldn't do before means it's pure entertainment.

You making up nonsense I never said, while ignoring what I actually did, is certainly pure entertainment :)


It's not a useful tool, because you actually have to work harder to use it,

I really don't. I'm already having to pay attention to drive a car.

Now I free up brain cycles currently spent on the physical act of steering and pedal control since the car can do those in more places.


People repeated the same nonsense about using AP on the highway for years about how it wasn't useful because you had to pay attention- and it was as wrong then as you are now.


Yeah, I mean wider than 1,000 more people, which is all Elon is at as of this morning. You'd think if you had a useful, safe tool, you'd want to send it out to more than 0.05% of your customers.


While you're still developing and improving the system to handle more cases? No, you really wouldn't.

You'd want to send to those most likely to safely continue to help improve it.

Which is of course what they're doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bhzmark
Example:
There was this user, Dan M, on Bogleheads that was convinced Tesla bankwuptcy was imminent, wouldn't produce a single Model Y, and was crowing about all the money me made by shorting TSLA. That was before the stock rocketed +$3000, split, and got added to the S&P500. Dan M disappeared from Bogleheads. :eek:

There are the poor (or probably bankrupt by now) retail TSLAQ - and then the deep money hedge funds etc. The poorer retail ones would have liked to get a class action suit going - but they don't have the needed strength - both legal and actual # of Tesla owners supporting the case. Hedge funds don't have the patience for cases that can drag on for years. They try to get their dirty work done by SEC.
 
What's your point? It could be another year before they add a single tester.
Any kind of lawsuit would be about an individual having it on their car, given that's what they paid for, and all except about 1000 people have no idea when that will be.

Something like....
MCU1.jpg
 

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