After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

[bhzmark]

s. I also asked my general counsel and she said that it might actually be possible to sue Tesla for fraud in a criminal court, and an enterprising DA can do that to bolster their portfolio.

That doesn’t even make sense and uses many words in a way that a lawyer never would.

The universe of FSD buyers divides up into two groups:

1) Those who read exactly and precisely what they were getting at time of purchase (including summon, Nav on AP, lane change etc.) and what might, maybe come someday in the future. They understood that this was essentially prebuying at a known price now for future functionality on an unknown time line that likely would be priced higher in the future. But by paying now they avoided future price hikes on functionality to come.

2) Those who didn’t read or didn’t understand what exactly they were getting.

 

[DanCar]

I think a Jury would assume, that if Tesla says they are going to get automatic driving in city streets by end of 2019, then it means that and any weasel words apply to something else.

 

[mark95476]

TSLA shorts and FUDsters must be feeling more and more desperate.

- Never mind record Q1 production and deliveries.
- Never mind the two new factories scheduled to open this year.
- Never mind their 4680 battery pilot plant.

Focus on this potential class-action lawsuit!

 

[run-the-joules]

TSLA shorts and FUDsters must be feeling more and more desperate.

- Never mind record Q1 production and deliveries.
- Never mind the two new factories scheduled to open this year.
- Never mind their 4680 battery pilot plant.

Focus on this potential class-action lawsuit!

Is it so hard to believe that some of us are shareholders and want the company to succeed, but also want them to stop screwing over customers?

 

[DanCar]

Is it so hard to believe that some of us are shareholders and want the company to succeed, but also want them to stop screwing over customers?

Well said.

 

[bhzmark]

Is it so hard to believe that some of us are shareholders and want the company to succeed, but also want them to stop screwing over customers?

What’s hard to believe is that people smart enough to buy Teslas were not smart enough to read and understand the specific terms of the options that they were selecting.

 

[am_dmd]

What’s hard to believe is that people smart enough to buy Teslas were not smart enough to read and understand the specific terms of the options that they were selecting.

Hindsight is always 2020. I was too naive to believe in Charlatan in 2016.

 

[GZDongles]

What Tesla states now is legally irrelevant

That depends on when you bought FSD. For me as a purchaser in 2020, Tesla never promised me a Level 4 or 5 system. You might have a case if you purchased in 2018 or early 2019.

 

[GZDongles]

What’s hard to believe is that people smart enough to buy Teslas were not smart enough to read and understand the specific terms of the options that they were selecting.

I am personally disappointed by the slow pace of rolling out automatic driving on city streets, and more disappointed by the consistent overly optimistic statements by Tesla and Elon, but this is the point that I always come back to. I can't believe there are people buying FSD in 2020 and 2021 that don't even bother to read their contract or what features they are actually being promised.

Whenever someone asks me if they should get FSD on a new Tesla that they are thinking of buying, I tell them to only get it if you are happy with the value of the current feature set. If you will only be happy with it when it's an autonomous vehicle, of course you should wait until it has those capabilities before spending the money on it. Yes, of course the price will go up once it has those capabilities. That's literally the reason it's less expensive now, because best case you'll have to wait for those features and worst case there is a risk they will never happen.

Again, for early FSD adopters, you probably have grounds to go wild with a lawsuit, but you certainly shouldn't expect to get all of your money back.

 

[Skotty]

There are 2 mistakes being made with FSD. One mistake by Tesla. One mistake by consumers. Tesla's mistake is making people think FSD is right around the corner, and that it will mean pretty much full autonomous driving. The consumer's mistake is thinking FSD is right around the corner, and that it will mean pretty much full autonomous driving.

Tesla will do their best to make FSD a reality, but it will often (if not always) come up short of people's imagined futures.

 

[Missile Toad]

Tesla's mistake is making people think FSD is right around the corner, and that it will mean pretty much full autonomous driving.

Wait, are you telling us, we shouldn't believe Elon when he says, "Funding secured"?

 

[gearchruncher]

There are 2 mistakes being made with FSD. One mistake by Tesla. One mistake by consumers. Tesla's mistake is making people think FSD is right around the corner, and that it will mean pretty much full autonomous driving. The consumer's mistake is thinking FSD is right around the corner, and that it will mean pretty much full autonomous driving.

Tesla will do their best to make FSD a reality, but it will often (if not always) come up short of people's imagined futures.

Personally, I am just waiting for FSD to do what was shown in a 2016 video that Tesla posted saying "the human is here only for legal reasons". But I guess that is my fault as a consumer for believing something a multi-billion dollar company showed me, and inventing feature expectations in my head out of whole cloth. Shame on me.

 

[gearchruncher]

I keep seeing a lot of people in here mentioning 2019 promises and such. We all need to remember that Tesla first sold FSD in October 2016, showed a video of it driving around, and Elon said people that bought FSD would see additional features over EAP by July 2017 "definitely." The idea that everyone that bought FSD or even a whole Tesla with years of context on how FSD was going is ignoring the 100k+ people that acquired an AP2 Tesla before the Model 3 was even released.

 

[run-the-joules]

Personally, I am just waiting for FSD to do what was shown in a 2016 video that Tesla posted saying "the human is here only for legal reasons". But I guess that is my fault as a consumer for believing something a multi-billion dollar company showed me, and inventing feature expectations in my head out of whole cloth. Shame on me.

Exactly.

 

[Cyberax]

What’s hard to believe is that people smart enough to buy Teslas were not smart enough to read and understand the specific terms of the options that they were selecting.

Tesla was advertising a Full Self-Driving, completely automated door-to-door experience. There were no written promises about its timeline, but I think it can be reasonable to make an argument that the functionality should be delivered during the first half of the car's usable lifetime or during its warranty period. Tesla's warranty is 4 years, my car is 3 years right now.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Is it so hard to believe that some of us are shareholders and want the company to succeed, but also want them to stop screwing over customers?

Red herrings to avoid dealing in nuance

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

What’s hard to believe is that people smart enough to buy Teslas were not smart enough to read and understand the specific terms of the options that they were selecting.

What’s not hard to believe is people struggling to grasp that contract words can be meaningless if there are wider legal obligations

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

I keep seeing a lot of people in here mentioning 2019 promises and such. We all need to remember that Tesla first sold FSD in October 2016, showed a video of it driving around, and Elon said people that bought FSD would see additional features over EAP by July 2017 "definitely." The idea that everyone that bought FSD or even a whole Tesla with years of context on how FSD was going is ignoring the 100k+ people that acquired an AP2 Tesla before the Model 3 was even released.

Reservations for M3 were placed in 2016.
Would be interesting if a legal argument could be made that the reservation & subsequent purchase was premised on FSD & hence the entire cost of the car plus interest should be refunded, as the owner would have never bought the car if they knew FSD deadlines could never have been met.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Reservations for M3 were placed in 2016.
Would be interesting if a legal argument could be made that the reservation & subsequent purchase was premised on FSD & hence the entire cost of the car plus interest should be refunded, as the owner would have never bought the car if they knew FSD deadlines could never have been met.

I probably wouldn't have traded in my AP1 2015 Model S on a 2018 Model 3 if it wasn't for the sense that HW3 (it was promised to FSD buyers) wouldn't have a substantially improved freeway L2 experience.

I never anticipated Tesla would achieve autonomous driving
I never anticipated that NoA would be such a colossal disaster (on average)
I never anticipated that phantom braking would damage the TACC only experience so much

Is that all on Tesla? Or is that on me for buying something before it accomplished the very things I thought I'd get from it?

In my own case I'm not looking for reimbursement. I hated that FSD was being sold because I don't like established large companies having buyers pay for the development of some feature. FSD was never demonstrated in a way that met my minimum threshold of believability. I'm a skeptical person by nature so no surprise there.

In the end it simply didn't work out as I anticipated. OOPS.

There are likely a lot of cases where Teslas failure to deliver on promises messed up someones plan, but I don't think its on Tesla to make things right in all cases. The best people can hope for is an FSD refund especially for people in the 2016 to 2019 range when it was a separated from EAP. But, this is only $3K so is it really worth fighting over? By this point all those people should be on HW3 so it not like they didn't get something for their money if they held onto the car.

Once the subscription model is started than I expect FSD on vehicles to make them more valuable where it will make the difference rather mute.

I'm expecting to see a few lawsuits, but nothing that will really amount to anything. Like I said before it will be more of a wimper than a bang.

The biggest damage to Tesla will be on early adopters (many of which have a money) no longer buying Tesla vehicles, and instead moving to competitors. But, I don't think Tesla cares as they have way more new people than old customers. Heck their competitors should thank them for giving them business.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

There are likely a lot of cases where Teslas failure to deliver on promises messed up someones plan, but I don't think its on Tesla to make things right in all cases. The best people can hope for is an FSD refund especially for people in the 2016 to 2019 range when it was a separated from EAP. But, this is only $3K so is it really worth fighting over? By this point all those people should be on HW3 so it not like they didn't get something for their money if they held onto the car.

Disagree. People paid for FSD, not a faster computer.
Additionally, people may well have bought a HW2 MS or MX (late 2016) instead of a HW1 MS or MX (pre-late 2016) because of its promise of FSD - that is the car itself was purchased, not just the feature. There may be other people who wouldn’t have bought altogether. Hence the cost to reclaim is more than just FSD - it comes down to if a judge decides that they still got benefit from their HW2+ car, based on their INDIVIDUAL CIRCUMSTANCES