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After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?

When would you consider initiating/joining a class action lawsuit for Tesla failure to deliver FSD?

  • Already enquiring with/engaging legal services

    Votes: 28 6.3%
  • End of 2021

    Votes: 101 22.8%
  • End of 2022

    Votes: 80 18.1%
  • 2023 - 2025

    Votes: 48 10.8%
  • 2025 - 2030

    Votes: 21 4.7%
  • After 2030

    Votes: 11 2.5%
  • Never

    Votes: 140 31.6%
  • Other - see comments

    Votes: 14 3.2%

  • Total voters
    443
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... and all I'm saying is that Tesla had been there until Model 3 happened!

Yes, but what you are saying continues to be factually wrong.

Before Model 3 Tesla was still delivering ~100,000 cars a year with S/X.

Versus the 500 Lucid "hopes" to deliver this year.

And Lucid had vastly more funding available to get production going than Tesla ever did.


As a smart guy once noted, production is hard



That's how big things start in today's world! Lucid/Rivan (not legacy automakers) will provide real competition to Tesla and that is absolutely required to ensure Tesla doesn't play around with consumers with fake FSD dreams in two weeks.

Yeah this continues to make 0 sense.

Even if we accepted Lucid was "competition" at the car level- and it's really not at these sorts of volumes, you're not required to buy FSD in the first place, and there's no "competition" selling a more-real FSD anyway- certainly not Lucid.
 
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Yes exactly. “FSD” was sold as an upgrade to people who had EAP for $3k. That locked in the price for FSD and also got them the computer upgrade and they also now have the streetlights and stop signs and similar things that were not in EAP.
Nah....right now they're requiring you to pay $1600-2200 to get MCU2 before you can get FSD Beta. Yes, I know, "It's going to work with MCU1, someday before the world ends"
 
Nah....right now they're requiring you to pay $1600-2200 to get MCU2 before you can get FSD Beta. Yes, I know, "It's going to work with MCU1, someday before the world ends"
No one is guaranteed FSD Beta — in fact it is clearly limited, as it should be at this stage.

I already personally had my HW upgraded in my Model 3 precisely because I had purchased the FSD upgrade to EAP. Tesla upgrades the hardware when needed for FSD.

Sorry these facts bankrupt the fantasy you tell yourself to justify your lame pathetic whining.
 
No one is guaranteed FSD Beta — in fact it is clearly limited, as it should be at this stage.

I already personally had my HW upgraded in my Model 3 precisely because I had purchased the FSD upgrade to EAP. Tesla upgrades the hardware when needed for FSD.

Sorry these facts bankrupt the fantasy you tell yourself to justify your lame pathetic whining.
The fantasy Elon fed everyone you mean? “FSD beta will roll out to everyone by end of 2020.”
 
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A few years back? 2019 they delivered 367.000 vehicles.

About 10 times more than Rivian plans to deliver by end of 2022.... and about 75,000 times more than Lucid is delivering this year.

I used 2019 because by the end of it Tesla FINALLY had a market cap about 80 billion.

Guess what Rivians market cap is TODAY? About 80 billion.

Lucid has a market cap just under 40 billion....and plans to deliver fewer cars this year than Tesla did in 2012. Like 5 times fewer.


"competition"
You know Tesla was not created and did not start delivery of vehicles in 2019 right?, start at 2011-2012.
 
You are entirely correct. The earlier purchasers were promised a complete production version "pending validation and government approval". Not a mere "beta".
this is with a video showing the capability and pumping a scheme to show Coast to Coast FSD. Leading many to believe the capability already exists and waiting for regulatory approval with the demonstration..
 
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You know Tesla was not created and did not start delivery of vehicles in 2019 right?, start at 2011-2012.


And Lucid wasn't created in 2021 either, but they're still only managing to deliver ~500 vehicles this year. Tesla in 2012 delivered over six times that many despite having a massively lower market cap, and no supporting suppliers in comparison.

In fact by END of first year of deliveries of mass produced cars (2012) Tesla was producing nearly as many cars per week as Lucid hopes to produce all year

So not sure what your point is?
 
And Lucid wasn't created in 2021 either, but they're still only managing to deliver ~500 vehicles this year. Tesla in 2012 delivered over six times that many despite having a massively lower market cap, and no supporting suppliers in comparison.

In fact by END of first year of deliveries of mass produced cars (2012) Tesla was producing nearly as many cars per week as Lucid hopes to produce all year

So not sure what your point is?
Lets start a separate thread discuss this specific topic.. Every car company has growing pains, just because you had no idea does not mean Tesla itself did not go through the same pains.
 
Lets start a separate thread discuss this specific topic.. Every car company has growing pains, just because you had no idea does not mean Tesla itself did not go through the same pains.


Not sure why you think I had no idea. I cited specific numbers for Tesla in the time period you appeared not to know their actual output.

You're the one who appears to have no idea Tesla produced over 6x more cars in year 1 of mass production than Lucid plans to.

Rivian doesn't seem to doing any better- currently struggling to build more than one truck per day

By all means feel free to start another thread though.
 
Seriously, that is your reply to why you are using the avatar of an actor who promotes genocide ?! I guess I'll have to start posting his comments as reply to your comments here.

I have no idea what you read every day but I bet some liberal media is from where you get your news! Mine (or anyone's) Avtar has nothing to do with Tesla's failure to deliver FSD. Appreciate your kindness, lets keep discussing in this thread Tesla's failure to deliver FSD and its possible legal implications. 👍
 
Disclaimer reads
"functionality is dependent upon"
a) "extensive software validation and"
b) "regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction"


Lets unpack two parts separately to show that they have not been the reason for non-delivery.

a) extensive software validation

That statement implies that Tesla had the FSD system they believed to be capable of L5* already at the time of making this statement (2016?), but had not yet sufficiently validated that for a public release.

This should be easy to disprove in court: They should just be asked to produce that system version from 2016 (?) along with the internal test reports that led them to believe that the software was sufficient for L5 unless "extensive software validation" demonstrated otherwise.

As we do not have access to their internal documentation, we cannot prove that they did not have such a system. That said, based the demo they released at the time it seems reasonable to believe that they did not think they have a system sufficiently robust and safe for L5 (apparently they had to fake it).

*) One could argue that L4 might be sufficient here, but Elon Musk have consistently mentioned L5 and also at the time discussed LA-NYC drive without human interventions. Whether it would be L4 or L5, all points are still the same.


b) regulatory approval,

Now 5 years later they have not even applied such approval.


With this, we can conclude that the actual reason for non-delivery has been something else than the disclaimers they gave in 2016. We know from Tesla's own admission that at least cameras and AP computer were not up to task of FSD. Furthermore, we have observed the software process and can conclude that software is not yet there for L5.

Thus their representation of the FSD functionality delivery readiness in 2016 was knowingly misleading.

I think, both (a) and (b) will be significant factors AFTER Tesla internally concludes that they have a L5 capable system.
If what you say is true (and I‘ve no reason to doubt it), then this is an excellent legal analysis, and provides a solid factual basis for a suit under various theories of liability, particularly a Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practice suit—most states have a similar statute. Of course, common-law fraud is implicated too, as well as various other causes of action. Well done and well summarized.
 
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