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Aftermarket Racing Performance brake rotors - weight loss w/better heat dissipation at a steep price

dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
Racing Brake in California makes the only option to Mountain Pass performance aftermarket rotors. Price is a formidable $2185, for front and rear replacement rotors. Or you can just get the fronts for $1140.

Pros:

1) Better heat dissipation from a curved 'convergent vane' design, but probably useful only in tracking or extreme use conditions but also with improved resistance to corrosion, warping, and a bunch of other issues that might degrade performance useful outside of the track.
2) two-piece construction means that you can keep the centers and replace the rotors (referred to as 'blanks') saving some money, with the blanks or 'rotor rings' running about $285 a piece. These are cheaper and of course better than the stock Tesla rotors if you buy them from Tesla.
3) lighter in weight at 16.2 lb for front rotors, but this is really only 3.3 pounds lighter than the stock rotor (their website incorrectly quotes the stock front Rotor at 23 lb).
4) easy installation process (20 minutes a corner), drops right in, 1mm thicker disk just meant slight expansion of caliper spread needed. This is an easy car to work on and tweak!
5) the 3-4 mm thicker center hub obviates the dreaded rotor hub lip on Performance brake models, meaning that any hub-centric wheel will fit without special machining.
6) roughly 2 lb lighter than competing Mountain Pass performance discs, and also has matching rear rotor set which MPP does not yet have. Unclear if MPP also has curved concentric vane design. These RB discs are unidirectional as part of that design principle. Unclear if MPP also following this approach ( I love MPP's stuff so I'm not knocking them!)

Cons:

1) Price (this form of weight loss costs over $100 a pound!)
2) May need slightly more negative offset Wheels given thicker rotor hub - modest disadvantage if you just bought 35 mm offset Wheels!

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beastmode13

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2018
918
1,167
NorCal, USA
Great write up. I'm waiting for my Racing Brakes (RB) myself, with 380x32mm BBK front and 335x21mm rear RB replacement rotor.

I have researched MPP, UP and RB brake upgrade option, before I decided on RB for some of the same reasons OP had outlined in his write up. Also, these points made RB standout for me.

1. The RB rotors are directional in the internal convergent vanes to pump air from the center of the rotor to the outside of the rotor. However, due to the center-mounted design, the same rotor blank could be used for the left or the right side. This makes ordering replacement blanks easy.

2. RB has an open slot design. There are drill through holes within the slots. The slots keep the pads/rotor surfaces clean. The holes within the slot improve cooling while it structurally contained in the slot to spread out any high-stress point from the through holes to a larger geometry of the slot to potentially avoid cracking seen on drill rotors.

3. The center-mounted design allows fresh venting air to enter from both sides of the brake rotor. MPP and UP rotors have venting from the inside, however inside is where the brake dust shield is, so unless the shield is removed there isn't a clear path for fresh cold air to enter the center of the rotor. With RB, air is pumped from both outside and inside.

FYI. I am also waiting for my MPP Sports Performance Coilover and rear suspension arms. I believe I am cherry picking the best parts from each vendor for my driving pleasure. :)
 
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wenkan

Member
Dec 31, 2018
582
533
Seattle
Racing Brake in California makes the only option to Mountain Pass performance aftermarket rotors. Price is a formidable $2185, for front and rear replacement rotors. Or you can just get the fronts for $1140.

Pros:

1) Better heat dissipation from a curved 'convergent vane' design, but probably useful only in tracking or extreme use conditions but also with improved resistance to corrosion, warping, and a bunch of other issues that might degrade performance useful outside of the track.
2) two-piece construction means that you can keep the centers and replace the rotors (referred to as 'blanks') saving some money, with the blanks or 'rotor rings' running about $285 a piece. These are cheaper and of course better than the stock Tesla rotors if you buy them from Tesla.
3) lighter in weight at 16.2 lb for front rotors, but this is really only 3.3 pounds lighter than the stock rotor (their website incorrectly quotes the stock front Rotor at 23 lb).
4) easy installation process (20 minutes a corner), drops right in, 1mm thicker disk just meant slight expansion of caliper spread needed. This is an easy car to work on and tweak!
5) the 3-4 mm thicker center hub obviates the dreaded rotor hub lip on Performance brake models, meaning that any hub-centric wheel will fit without special machining.
6) roughly 2 lb lighter than competing Mountain Pass performance discs, and also has matching rear rotor set which MPP does not yet have. Unclear if MPP also has curved concentric vane design. These RB discs are unidirectional as part of that design principle. Unclear if MPP also following this approach ( I love MPP's stuff so I'm not knocking them!)

Cons:

1) Price (this form of weight loss costs over $100 a pound!)
2) May need slightly more negative offset Wheels given thicker rotor hub - modest disadvantage if you just bought 35 mm offset Wheels!

View attachment 383430 View attachment 383431 View attachment 383432
I remember the stock 20in wheels has 40 offset instead of 35 to adapt the center hub. If I buy aftermarket wheels I should be ok to use 35 offset with the replacement rotors.
 

dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
Note difference in convection tunnels in stock brake versus curved tunnel on RB rotor
I remember the stock 20in wheels has 40 offset instead of 35 to adapt the center hub. If I buy aftermarket wheels I should be ok to use 35 offset with the replacement rotors.

Other way around. In other words the OEM stock wheels on the Performance brake models have a 35 mm offset whereas all non Performance brake Wheels 19 and 18 inch size have a 40 mm offset.. That's because the rotor hat is thinner on the Performance brake models. We're changing that with the installation of the thicker aluminum instead of Steel rotor hats, so now you need probably 38-39 mm offset to keep the same scrub radius. 40 mm would be fine. And 35 mm would be usable. That's what I have on mine. But it's probably not ideal. It does give you a bit more distance from that front suspension knuckle which is a limiting factor on the front in in terms of wheels and wheel width. And you no longer have to worry if your aftermarket alloy Wheel manufacturer has machined in a lip to clear the brake rotor Hub that used to be 2+mm exposed with the performance brakes. That's now gone as you can see in one of my pictures below.
 

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Lunares

Member
Jul 9, 2018
750
543
San Diego
Note difference in convection tunnels in stock brake versus curved tunnel on RB rotor


Other way around. In other words the OEM stock wheels on the Performance brake models have a 35 mm offset whereas all non Performance brake Wheels 19 and 18 inch size have a 40 mm offset.. That's because the rotor hat is thinner on the Performance brake models. We're changing that with the installation of the thicker aluminum instead of Steel rotor hats, so now you need probably 38-39 mm offset to keep the same scrub radius. 40 mm would be fine. And 35 mm would be usable. That's what I have on mine. But it's probably not ideal. It does give you a bit more distance from that front suspension knuckle which is a limiting factor on the front in in terms of wheels and wheel width. And you no longer have to worry if your aftermarket alloy Wheel manufacturer has machined in a lip to clear the brake rotor Hub that used to be 2+mm exposed with the performance brakes. That's now gone as you can see in one of my pictures below.

What if you already have wheels with a machined in lip?
 

dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
What if you already have wheels with a machined in lip?
Good question. That's what I have actually and it's a non-issue. The Hub Centric fit of course has to be correct but now any wheel including those with or without the machined lip to clear that protruding hub will fit just fine.
 

dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
Ran into a frustrating snag today in terms of doing the rear rotors. The parking brake has a death grip on the rotor even if you put it in transport mode, which in theory releases it - just not enough unfortunately. I'll need to get some spreaders which I just ordered from Amazon. If you don't have caliper spreaders don't try to take off the rear caliper assembly which includes a honking parking brake.

Curious if any of you track guys have a work around?
 

Magnets!

Member
Jan 9, 2019
661
285
California
I know with Audi and Porsche the electric e-brake can be released manually although it does require a bit of disassembly. Don't know if Tesla uses a similar design. Not sure a caliper spreader is going to work if that motor is locked into place. Good luck.
 

dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
I know with Audi and Porsche the electric e-brake can be released manually although it does require a bit of disassembly. Don't know if Tesla uses a similar design. Not sure a caliper spreader is going to work if that motor is locked into place. Good luck.

I'm wondering if you can disconnect it electrically and whether that will back it off completely, as it appears to operate like a basic solenoid?
 

Msjulie

Active Member
Jun 26, 2016
2,439
1,748
Monterey Peninsula
Ran into a frustrating snag today in terms of doing the rear rotors. The parking brake has a death grip on the rotor even if you put it in transport mode, which in theory releases it - just not enough unfortunately. I'll need to get some spreaders which I just ordered from Amazon. If you don't have caliper spreaders don't try to take off the rear caliper assembly which includes a honking parking brake.


Here's what I did after remembering I forgot about the electric brake

Lift the car, remove the tire/wheel
Put the car in tow mode
Disconnect the electric plug to the brake caliper on the side I'm working
Take stuff apart, swap rotors, reverse

You may have to wiggle the caliper a little to unstick the pads from the rotor but in my case, the pistons were nearly fully retracted and not an issue.

While I was putting the rim back on the 20mins or whatever tow-mod timer expired and the parking brake engaged and snugged up that side of the car. Rinse and repeat

Originally I only swapped out the fronts.

MPP Front Rotors
 
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Glamisduner

Active Member
Aug 2, 2017
3,582
2,125
Escondido, CA
Here's what I did after remembering I forgot about the electric brake

Lift the car, remove the tire/wheel
Put the car in tow mode
Disconnect the electric plug to the brake caliper on the side I'm working
Take stuff apart, swap rotors, reverse

You may have to wiggle the caliper a little to unstick the pads from the rotor but in my case, the pistons were nearly fully retracted and not an issue.

While I was putting the rim back on the 20mins or whatever tow-mod timer expired and the parking brake engaged and snugged up that side of the car. Rinse and repeat

Originally I only swapped out the fronts.

MPP Front Rotors
So it's safe to unplug, but you need to hurry because once your 20 minutes is up the parking brake is going to engage?
 

Msjulie

Active Member
Jun 26, 2016
2,439
1,748
Monterey Peninsula
So it's safe to unplug, but you need to hurry because once your 20 minutes is up the parking brake is going to engage?

By the time I was putting the wheel on, the wire was plugged back in - but when I did the other side I was more relaxed and I heard the parking brake engage on the opposite side (so ~20 mins or whatever had expired). The disassembled side was still disconnected, as soon as I plugged it in the brake engaged on that side.

BTW When the wire was unplugged, there was an error on the screen - expected - telling me I need to contact service for a parking brake issue..
 

Orwell

Member
Oct 1, 2018
316
240
Atlanta
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dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
I like the weight of the RB rotors, but am a bit hesitant/weary about the center mount design especially after seeing failures online without explanation by the mnaufacturer.

Catastrophic RacingBrake 2-piece rotor failure on track - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

I'm wondering if this was such a good idea, then why aren't all the big name brake companies (Alcon, Akebono, AP Racing, Brembo, Endless, Project Mu, STOPTECH, Wilwood, etc.) doing it?

Thanks very much Orwell for bringing that to my attention. It appears that the lock nuts don't have enough load bearing capacity at least on that particular racing brake hub, although you don't know how many rotor blanks were actually used on that particular rotor hat and those particular lock nuts. He says this was his fourth track day with those rotors but I can't be absolutely sure that he means the rotor hat was also new .

What appears to have happened in that instance was that probably one of the lock nuts failed transferring what became a catastrophic cascade of forces into the remaining locknuts nuts and the asymmetry of the force transfer quickly fractured the rotor itself. Again I'm no material scientist but that's what it looks like to me. Since we don't know how many rotor blanks were run on that particular rotor hat and those particular lock nuts, we have no way of knowing if this is a real design failing, a one-off failing of the lock nuts, or simply a rotor hat that had the crap beaten out of it by a lot of hours on the track. That's the problem with anecdotal reports as you can't draw too many conclusions but in any case it's disturbing

One critical difference that I see between that failed rotor assembly and mine is the thickness of the mounting nuts and lock nuts, and the ones on the failed rotor hat and rotor ring appear to be significantly thinner and shorter in terms of depth, suggesting much higher loads over the bolt area. Perhaps this is an earlier design? In any case, this is the second disturbing thing I've heard about Racing Brake today. I can't reveal the other material or its source but collectively it makes me quite nervous. I may have to consider taking these rotors off if I track the car. I'm sure they're safe on the street. I'm going to reach out to racingbrake for comment and I will report back.
 
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SD_Engnr

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
1,836
1,493
San Diego
Thanks very much Orwell for bringing that to my attention. It appears that the lock nuts don't have enough load bearing capacity at least on that particular racing brake hub, although you don't know how many rotor blanks were actually used on that particular rotor hat and those particular lock nuts. He says this was his fourth track day with those rotors but I can't be absolutely sure that he means the rotor hat was also new .

What appears to have happened in that instance was that probably one of the lock nuts failed transferring what became a catastrophic cascade of forces into the remaining locknuts nuts and the asymmetry of the force transfer quickly fractured the rotor itself. Again I'm no material scientist but that's what it looks like to me. Since we don't know how many rotor blanks were run on that particular rotor hat and those particular lock nuts, we have no way of knowing if this is a real design failing, a one-off failing of the lock nuts, or simply a rotor hat that it had the crap beaten out of it by a lot of hours on the track. That's the problem with anecdotal reports as you can't draw too many conclusions but in any case it's disturbing

In any case, this is the second disturbing thing I've heard about Racing Brake today. I can't reveal the other material or its source but collectively it makes me quite nervous. I may have to consider taking these rotors off if I track the car. I'm sure they're safe on the street. I'm going to reach out to racingbrake for comment and I will report back.

I've encountered threads similar to the one Orwell posted, and this was well before I owned a 3. Lot's of unknown's in that post, but still doesn't look good. I've kept to myself about it, but now that the cat is out...
 

Orwell

Member
Oct 1, 2018
316
240
Atlanta
RacingBrake 2-piece rotor failure

RacingBrake.com Rotor failure

Similar commentary from these failures also. Racing Brake tends to blame installation issues/errors. How can this be so common? Both failures mention problems with clearances, which sounds more like a manufacturing issue.

You don't hear about this with other manufacturers. Try to Google "2-piece rotor failure" and look at the first few results and you will see which manufacturer comes up.

 
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dfwatt

Active Member
Sep 24, 2018
3,187
5,212
FL
It seems that if you are just slightly off center, the asymmetry of forces on the disk and hub might be enough to suddenly crack one disk rib, and then the whole thing fails very quickly from there? I'm going to pull mine in a few thousand as see what the disk looks like . . .but concerning for sure.
 

wenkan

Member
Dec 31, 2018
582
533
Seattle
I just tracked my M3P in pacific raceways. The stock rotor handled pretty wheel. No brake fade throughout whole 3 sessions. I would now doubt the necessity of upgrading the rotors/pads for track performance.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,245
4,276
SoCal
I just tracked my M3P in pacific raceways. The stock rotor handled pretty wheel. No brake fade throughout whole 3 sessions. I would now doubt the necessity of upgrading the rotors/pads for track performance.
Stock pads and fluid?
 

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