Aftermarket Racing Performance brake rotors - weight loss w/better heat dissipation at a steep price

[dfwatt]

I just tracked my M3P in pacific raceways. The stock rotor handled pretty wheel. No brake fade throughout whole 3 sessions. I would now doubt the necessity of upgrading the rotors/pads for track performance.

My suspicion is that depends on two issues. One, whether it's a high-speed track with heavy braking at the end of a straight where you might be going more than a hundred miles an hour and 2, whether you've got really sticky tires typically oversized like a 265 / 35 where you going to put a lot more G-Force loads on the braking system in every corner.

Lots of the guys tracking the car who are real serious about it insist that you have to have pads and fluid change at the bare minimum. Extra heat dissipation from upgraded rotors probably doesn't hurt either if you've got either of those two conditions.

 

[wenkan]

Stock pads and fluid?

Yes, all stock.

 

[wenkan]

My suspicion is that depends on two issues. One, whether it's a high-speed track with heavy braking at the end of a straight where you might be going more than a hundred miles an hour and 2, whether you've got really sticky tires typically oversized like a 265 / 35 where you going to put a lot more G-Force loads on the braking system in every corner.

Lots of the guys tracking the car who are real serious about it insist that you have to have pads and fluid change at the bare minimum. Extra heat dissipation from upgraded rotors probably doesn't hurt either if you've got either of those two conditions.

End of straight braking is from 110mph to 70, and from 95mph to 35. The tires are also stock PS4s.

 

[XBS9]

Just stick with MPP, tried, proven, great support, (Sasha called me after I emailed him on Christmas). Only bad thing you can say, if you are impatient you have to wait. (Maybe not anymore not sure).

For reference I currently have their front and rear rotors on my car for about 3,000 miles and my control arms just arrived today just waiting on their sport coil overs!

2018 DM, White/white, AP+FSD, Perofmance wheels and tires (not perofmance model hopefully I can purchase software and be a P3D- with track mode one day - take my money Elon!)

 

[mcbarnet007]

Here's what I did after remembering I forgot about the electric brake

Lift the car, remove the tire/wheel
Put the car in tow mode
Disconnect the electric plug to the brake caliper on the side I'm working
Take stuff apart, swap rotors, reverse

You may have to wiggle the caliper a little to unstick the pads from the rotor but in my case, the pistons were nearly fully retracted and not an issue.

While I was putting the rim back on the 20mins or whatever tow-mod timer expired and the parking brake engaged and snugged up that side of the car. Rinse and repeat

Originally I only swapped out the fronts.

MPP Front Rotors

I've changed the rear pads twice and this is the correct procedure. Unless you have access to Tesla software which retracts the parking brakes all the way in.

 

[mcbarnet007]

@dfwatt did you test fit the rear rotor yet?

 

[mcbarnet007]

RacingBrake 2-piece rotor failure

RacingBrake.com Rotor failure

Similar commentary from these failures also. Racing Brake tends to blame installation issues/errors. How can this be so common? Both failures mention problems with clearances, which sounds more like a manufacturing issue.

You don't hear about this with other manufacturers. Try to Google "2-piece rotor failure" and look at the first few results and you will see which manufacturer comes up.

This post deserves more attention. Please do more thorough research before deciding on one of the most important component on your car. Maybe it was installer error or maybe it's design issue. Do you really want to find out when you're going 110mph in the brake zone before a hairpin?

 

[dfwatt]

@dfwatt did you test fit the rear rotor yet?

Cranky back has prevented any major projects on the car! Upcoming . . .

 

[dfwatt]

This post deserves more attention. Please do more thorough research before deciding on one of the most important component on your car. Maybe it was installer error or maybe it's design issue. Do you really want to find out when you're going 110mph in the brake zone before a hairpin?

Agreed. But the problem is that anecdotal reports of failure on another and different RB rotor assembly on a different vehicle - without either comparative data across other brands of aftermarket rotor, or about the incidence of failure and some version of MTBF data from RB on this kind of part - is not a basis for drawing any conclusions. We need more information from RB!

 

[Orwell]

Except they are very bad at responding to messages so it's hard to get a hold of them. I've sent them 3 messages through their website with no response.

 

[stickman]

Agreed. But the problem is that anecdotal reports of failure on another and different RB rotor assembly on a different vehicle - without either comparative data across other brands of aftermarket rotor, or about the incidence of failure and some version of MTBF data from RB on this kind of part - is not a basis for drawing any conclusions. We need more information from RB!

hah whatever. Why don't you just say "I don't care I'm never tracking the car I just bought them cause I think they're cool" ?

 

[dfwatt]

hah whatever. Why don't you just say "I don't care I'm never tracking the car I just bought them cause I think they're cool" ?

Because I am seriously thinking about tracking the car . . .but they are cool!

Seriously, I did some checking comparing the rotor hat hardware mounting system in the RB brake that underwent catastrophic failure and this one. They are different - this has a different appearing and seemingly deeper and more substantial 'sleeve' system on the bolts compared to what you could see on the CTS-V disk in that troubling post - meaning that this attachment system appears to be different, and this rotor ring bolt system (securing hat to disk ring) was likely the point of failure.

That aside, it's still troubling, particularly RB's lack of apparent responsiveness to these concerns. It suggests that they did a redesign, with as little as possible acknowledgment that there might have been an issue. Along with the expected technical competence, high levels of professional ethics really help build confidence in buying this kind of safety related aftermarket part. If it even appears lacking, it's really troubling.

 

[SammichLover]

End of straight braking is from 110mph to 70, and from 95mph to 35. The tires are also stock PS4s.

I don't know if the P runs the same fluid as the D but my stock fluid held up with just a pad swap on the front. Tires were 245/40 Azenis so sticky enough to do something, and the two big braking zones were roughly 115-35 and 115-70 (with a further step down in the next turn) with a smaller 90-65. I wasn't pushing into those zones too much though, so the regen would be doing a bit more work than with a better/braver driver.

I'm still going to swap the fluid, as soon as I work that out, because eventually the humidity here will get to the stock fluid and ruin my day if I don't.

 

[wenkan]

I don't know if the P runs the same fluid as the D but my stock fluid held up with just a pad swap on the front. Tires were 245/40 Azenis so sticky enough to do something, and the two big braking zones were roughly 115-35 and 115-70 (with a further step down in the next turn) with a smaller 90-65. I wasn't pushing into those zones too much though, so the regen would be doing a bit more work than with a better/braver driver.

I'm still going to swap the fluid, as soon as I work that out, because eventually the humidity here will get to the stock fluid and ruin my day if I don't.

Yes I will also change the fluid and steel brake lines.

 

[beastmode13]

Trying to bring some balance to this conversation. If you do a bit of web search, there are photos of brake rotor failures from all brands.

DBA - Dba 4000 T3 Rotors - Catastrophic Failure At Track
PowerStop - Beware of Track Day rotors by Powerstop - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
GiroDisc (post 14) - Brembo Type 3 Rotors - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

That particular CTS-V RB failure was posted in multiple sites, so it is getting a lot more eyeballs.

 

[mcbarnet007]

Trying to bring some balance to this conversation. If you do a bit of web search, there are photos of brake rotor failures from all brands.

DBA - Dba 4000 T3 Rotors - Catastrophic Failure At Track
PowerStop - Beware of Track Day rotors by Powerstop - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
GiroDisc (post 14) - Brembo Type 3 Rotors - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

That particular CTS-V RB failure was posted in multiple sites, so it is getting a lot more eyeballs.

Thanks for digging them up! Looks like giridisc is the only one that didn't completely separate the ring from the hat.

 

[dfwatt]

Trying to bring some balance to this conversation. If you do a bit of web search, there are photos of brake rotor failures from all brands.

DBA - Dba 4000 T3 Rotors - Catastrophic Failure At Track
PowerStop - Beware of Track Day rotors by Powerstop - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
GiroDisc (post 14) - Brembo Type 3 Rotors - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

That particular CTS-V RB failure was posted in multiple sites, so it is getting a lot more eyeballs.

Excellent to get more data into the charged - and therefore potentially easily biased - discussion of something as critical as brake failures!!
Many thanks for posting that BeastMode . . I was also somewhat reassured when I saw the differences between the disks I bought and those CTS-V discs, esp. around the attachment systems.

 

[mcbarnet007]

I do hope RB beefed up the interconnects. I have no royalty or allegiance to any aftermarket brake system. I just want to make sure everyone is safe. The more option there is the better it is for all of us.

 

[dfwatt]

Trying to bring some balance to this conversation. If you do a bit of web search, there are photos of brake rotor failures from all brands.

DBA - Dba 4000 T3 Rotors - Catastrophic Failure At Track
PowerStop - Beware of Track Day rotors by Powerstop - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
GiroDisc (post 14) - Brembo Type 3 Rotors - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

That particular CTS-V RB failure was posted in multiple sites, so it is getting a lot more eyeballs.

What's also interesting is the different types of structural failure - there is one 'hat seam' failure that looks quite different from the RB hat failure, and two structural failures of the disk rotor itself.

All quite scary to contemplate in terms of what the experience of the driver must have been like , and all probably similar in terms of loss of braking and control together. All also on fronts not surprisingly!

 

[Lunares]

Should I get fluid/pads changed on a P3D just for autocross? Or wait until i'm ready for buttonwillow