Aftermarket Racing Performance brake rotors - weight loss w/better heat dissipation at a steep price

[beastmode13]

Should I get fluid/pads changed on a P3D just for autocross? Or wait until i'm ready for buttonwillow

AutoX - NO, Buttonwillow - YES.

 

[Orwell]

Yes, for peace of mind and better brake feel.

 

[EVTuning]

The car in question had a V1 CTS-V (4 pot calipers w/355x32 RB 2 pc rotor). When CTS-V Gen 2V came out with a bigger 6 pot caliper (370x34mm rotor) he "retrofitted" to 6 pot calipers but only purchased the replacement rings (2mm thicker) instead of complete hat and rotor assemblies. He re-used his old hats w/o knowing it has a different offset due to thicker rotor (His old hat was made for 32mm rotor) so because of this the failure happened. Had he used the correct hats there would not have been excessive force on the ring from not being centered correctly. I have two piece rotors from them front and rear on the EV tuning Model 3 without any issues/failures. That original post has been around the internet a bunch and it’s been stated what the root cause was.

 

[kbecks13]

Should I get fluid/pads changed on a P3D just for autocross? Or wait until i'm ready for buttonwillow

You don't need it for either, i've done Buttonwillow on a totally stock P3D without any problems (and no brake fade at the time since i wasn't pushing very hard plus didn't have track mode) but they are nice to get done, especially if you are going to brake hard/try to go fast.

Honestly you might want to wait so you can experience the difference yourself and learn, otherwise you have no point of comparison for the upgrade.

 

[dfwatt]

The car in question had a V1 CTS-V (4 pot calipers w/355x32 RB 2 pc rotor). When CTS-V Gen 2V came out with a bigger 6 pot caliper (370x34mm rotor) he "retrofitted" to 6 pot calipers but only purchased the replacement rings (2mm thicker) instead of complete hat and rotor assemblies. He re-used his old hats w/o knowing it has a different offset due to thicker rotor (His old hat was made for 32mm rotor) so because of this the failure happened. Had he used the correct hats there would not have been excessive force on the ring from not being centered correctly. I have two piece rotors from them front and rear on the EV tuning Model 3 without any issues/failures. That original post has been around the internet a bunch and it’s been stated what the root cause was.

Thank you very much for clarifying that. I have wondered about how much wear-and-tear was on that hat and whether he had taken an older hat and put it with new rings. But what you're saying is even far worse. He pretty much guaranteed and eventual structural failure of the rotor Rings because of asymmetric force on them.

 

[EVTuning]

Thank you very much for clarifying that. I have wondered about how much wear-and-tear was on that hat and whether he had taken an older hat and put it with new rings. But what you're saying is even far worse. He pretty much guaranteed and eventual structural failure of the rotor Rings because of asymmetric force on them.

Correct. I have used both mountain pass rotors and racing brake. Both fit well and performed the way they are supposed to. It really comes down to whether you’re looking for stock replacement sized, something slightly bigger than stock with stock caliper or something much bigger and a caliper upgrade. Those with the base brakes would probably be looking for something bigger with stock or upgraded calipers. The performance brake crowd would probably be happy with just replacement rotors. Then you can replace rings when they wear out and further reduce your rotating mass and increase cooling capacity.

I would argue that doing things like upgrading brake fluid, stainless brake lines, and performance pads are things that are worth doing. The last thing you want to find out on the track is you don’t have as much brake as you need. It’s as much about going fast as it is about slowing down and how the vehicle handles.

 

[Vines]

Should I get fluid/pads changed on a P3D just for autocross? Or wait until i'm ready for buttonwillow

The stock brakes are great for autox, and should provide plenty of room for great handling assist by track mode. As others have said, Buttonwillow is certainly a place where if you wished to go very fast, you'd want the upgraded pads and fluid. I ran my P3D+ totally stock at Buttonwillow, and found the limits of the brakes.

Part of the magic of learning to go faster, is learning to go slower. Your biggest improvement to overall time comes with both upgraded driver skill, and then upgraded car limits.

Cars with slightly lower limits often teach you more at first. The faster and more edgy the car is, the less forgiving it is usually.

 

[EVTuning]

The stock brakes are great for autox, and should provide plenty of room for great handling assist by track mode. As others have said, Buttonwillow is certainly a place where if you wished to go very fast, you'd want the upgraded pads and fluid. I ran my P3D+ totally stock at Buttonwillow, and found the limits of the brakes.

Part of the magic of learning to go faster, is learning to go slower. Your biggest improvement to overall time comes with both upgraded driver skill, and then upgraded car limits.

Cars with slightly lower limits often teach you more at first. The faster and more edgy the car is, the less forgiving it is usually.

Well said!

 

[wenkan]

Correct. I have used both mountain pass rotors and racing brake. Both fit well and performed the way they are supposed to. It really comes down to whether you’re looking for stock replacement sized, something slightly bigger than stock with stock caliper or something much bigger and a caliper upgrade. Those with the base brakes would probably be looking for something bigger with stock or upgraded calipers. The performance brake crowd would probably be happy with just replacement rotors. Then you can replace rings when they wear out and further reduce your rotating mass and increase cooling capacity.

I would argue that doing things like upgrading brake fluid, stainless brake lines, and performance pads are things that are worth doing. The last thing you want to find out on the track is you don’t have as much brake as you need. It’s as much about going fast as it is about slowing down and how the vehicle handles.

The main limit of braking force is actually the tire grip. With track mode utilizing regen braking a lot it’s actually less thermal pressure on the brake system. I would assign the rotors lowest priority in the upgrade queue.

 

[mcbarnet007]

The main limit of braking force is actually the tire grip. With track mode utilizing regen braking a lot it’s actually less thermal pressure on the brake system. I would assign the rotors lowest priority in the upgrade queue.

I have done 6 track days with P3D+ and I can tell you that regen helps a little bit but most of the stopping is still done with good old friction brake. And I can also tell you that with the speed and weight of the car, the stock P3D+ brake system can only last you 2 hot laps before over heating. You need a bigger rotors or curved vane to help with cooling.

 

[wenkan]

I have done 6 track days with P3D+ and I can tell you that regen helps a little bit but most of the stopping is still done with good old friction brake. And I can also tell you that with the speed and weight of the car, the stock P3D+ brake system can only last you 2 hot laps before over heating. You need a bigger rotors or curved vane to help with cooling.

Maybe the track I went is less demanding, I had run the track day with 3 sessions and all stock brake parts are fine. I will definitely change the fluid next time, but I have not touch the limit of the rotors yet.

 

[Vines]

The main limit of braking force is actually the tire grip. With track mode utilizing regen braking a lot it’s actually less thermal pressure on the brake system. I would assign the rotors lowest priority in the upgrade queue.

We shall see how necessary they are, I'll be taking it up just one notch with my front and rear pads and fluid swap. With Tesla pricing, upgrades might actually be similar in price to new rotors. It all depends on what you expect your braking system to handle and how hard you push.

I do not know the totality of the thermal load placed on the brakes from the traction control system. I suspect its slightly higher than average. My rear brakes were more taxed than my fronts were last session.

I also do not know the effect of the straight through venting of the brake rotors, vs the curved vane moving air in a normal brake system. I remember reading that Tesla brakes intentionally don't pump as much air through them. Not sure if that's true, or even if true for the regular and Performance brakes both (anyone know?) EV have design choices that don't always make sense at first from ICE perspective, until you consider that how they are normally used, brakes are almost unneeded.

 

[mcbarnet007]

Maybe the track I went is less demanding, I had run the track day with 3 sessions and all stock brake parts are fine. I will definitely change the fluid next time, but I have not touch the limit of the rotors yet.

The limit of the rotor is much higher than the pads, but without proper cooling, you'll cook your brake pad and your brake fluid very fast. The rotor is the main component that is getting rid of heat and a upgraded two piece aftermarket rotor will give you better cooling capability. You can brake earlier in the brake zone and utilize regen to save the brakes but that would not be best for lap time.

 

[wenkan]

The limit of the rotor is much higher than the pads, but without proper cooling, you'll cook your brake pad and your brake fluid very fast. The rotor is the main component that is getting rid of heat and a upgraded two piece aftermarket rotor will give you better cooling capability. You can brake earlier in the brake zone and utilize regen to save the brakes but that would not be best for lap time.

At least it is not as fast as 2 laps on the track I went. If running better tires like RE71r it may reach that point faster.

 

[brianman]

I just tracked my M3P in pacific raceways. The stock rotor handled pretty wheel. No brake fade throughout whole 3 sessions. I would now doubt the necessity of upgrading the rotors/pads for track performance.

My stock rotors and pads lasted 4.5 track days (ORP, ORP, PIR, PIR, PIR) before the pads started scraping. Just another data point.

 

[wenkan]

My stock rotors and pads lasted 4.5 track days (ORP, ORP, PIR, PIR, PIR) before the pads started scraping. Just another data point.

Are you changing to any kind of sport pads? Rotors still working fine?

 

[Vines]

Wooho! Just got my set of UP front and rear brake pads. I'll be set for Tesla Corsa!

Castrol SRF fluid, high temp but very streetable pads from Unplugged Performance.

Thanks @UnpluggedP team!

 

[brianman]

Are you changing to any kind of sport pads? Rotors still working fine?

Rotors and pads (front and rear) were replaced by Tesla with stock/OEMs.

Yes, I'm looking for a better option (definitely pads and possibly rotors) but I haven't converged in my decision making yet. :|

I wish there was a end-to-end solution (product + installer) in the Seattle area. Hopefully one will present itself in the near future.

 

[SD_Engnr]

Rotors and pads (front and rear) were replaced by Tesla with stock/OEMs.

Yes, I'm looking for a better option (definitely pads and possibly rotors) but I haven't converged in my decision making yet. :|

I wish there was a end-to-end solution (product + installer) in the Seattle area. Hopefully one will present itself in the near future.

Can you share the costs?

 

[brianman]

Can you share the costs?

Correction: front and rear pads, front rotors (i.e. rear rotors not replaced).

$160.00 Parts | 8008242-00-A FR BRAKE CALIPER, SPORT, LINING KIT
$160.00 Parts | 8008246-00-A RR BRAKE CALIPER, SPORT, LINING KIT
$300.00 Parts | 1044616-00-D BRAKE ROTOR, FRONT, SPORT BIMATERIAL
$ 93.75 Labor | Brake Pads & Rotors - Front
$125.00 Labor | Brake Pads - Rear
$ 83.88 Tax
$922.63 Total