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Aftermarket Wheels Too Expensive
- Thread starter MCM3
- Start date
Its fascinating to me that, sometimes, certain threads on an existing topic take off, and others dont. Sometimes I can see why a thread might or might not do that, like a well crafted first post (trolling or otherwise), or , a subject people love to talk about, or some other combination of factors, but other times I cant really see why.
This is one of those "cant see why" ones, at least for me, lol, especially since the thread premise basically is "Expensive aftermarket wheels are expensive".
Quad electric motors don't need to be that expensive. I think we can ignore Porsche pricing, they have fattest margins and highest non-exotic prices in the industry. Porsche gas cars are really expensive too but that doesn't make a gas Subaru expensive.
The key will be focusing the quad motors on traction, not on winning the power wars. Use 4 low power, relatively low cost motors. If it can put down something in the M3LR-M3P power range, in total, that's great and all that's needed.
Traction and overall ability to easily control the car on all surfaces was always what made the STI special, more than anything else. True its 300hp was special back in 2004 (for its price point) but that quickly became just table stakes. DCCD and all those limit slip diffs are awesome for gas AWD but obsolete for an EV. Any LSD worth its salt would tank the efficiency of an EV. Per-wheel electric motors are the future for cars focused on maximum traction. See the Rivian.
If Subaru comes out with an electric STI that isn't quad motor, I will be sorely disappointed.
Lindenwood
Active Member
Fair enough! I was thinking 3.0 0-60 with a solid top-end and a battery capable of providing that power for a track session. But, if you are thinking more like 3.8 0-60 and more autocross-type battery duration, I could see that being in the M3P price range.
Lindenwood
Active Member
Since I lived in the Subaru world for a while ('05 STi , '99 RSTi) and still have close ties to the one of the main Suby specific suspension companies, I can say it's probably not that simple. Name recognition among the brand will be a big hurdle. MPP would be a newcomer to the Subaru world regardless of its existing Tesla ties.MPP blue would look pretty good on a WRB Subaru (World Rally Blue). Just sayin'. If they do come out with a quad motor EV STI you'll come through for us right?
It's not just coming out with a product, it's all the social media, learning all about the car, establishing the MPP name that would be more of a challenge.
All those reasons are a big portion of why the Suby suspension company I speak of hasn't tried to take on the Tesla world despite having the AWD background.
That is a good point. My understanding is the MPP folks were in the performance business already, lots of experience, but still established a new company / name for the Tesla EV focus.
And Redwood Motorsports is basically Sakebomb Garage, lots of experience going back many years focusing on Japanese sports cars, but they still decided a new business name was worthwhile when branching out to Tesla's.
This sounds like you care more about looks than performance? (which is fine!).
What do you define as fit and finish? Most wheels are a painted chunk of metal, so it's not like they have panel gaps
I just figured in this price range we are getting all flow forged/formed wheels. I did not think there would be any significant differences other the fit and finish. If thats not the case i would like to be educated on it.
I know speed performance is not effected by the weight, but I would think the handling feel would be.To what degree i would really like some feedback.
I am chasing canon handling and feel, without sacrificing to much of the daily driver and the occasional wife and I road trip car. Looks are very important also, and i want to see that i spent my money well every time i look at the car.
Ive got most of the MPP parts on DWS 245/40 and feel i could use next a PS4S in a 255 on a 19x9 wheel
I know speed performance is not effected by the weight, but I would think the handling feel would be.To what degree i would really like some feedback.
I am chasing canon handling and feel, without sacrificing to much of the daily driver and the occasional wife and I road trip car. Looks are very important also, and i want to see that i spent my money well every time i look at the car.
Ive got most of the MPP parts on DWS 245/40 and feel i could use next a PS4S in a 255 on a 19x9 wheel
There's a huge thread already on how much light wheels help. The math says not much on a 4200 lb car.
Smaller and Lighter wheels make you faster, more efficient, and offer better road hazard protection.
There has been a lot of debate about what effects smaller and lighter wheels have on the Model 3 Performance. I am here to end that debate. Stock the Model 3 Performance now comes with 20" UberTurbine wheels with 235/35/20 Pirelli PZ4 tires. Those wheels weigh 32 lbs and the combined wheel...
teslamotorsclub.com
255 is a weird tire size and hard to find. If you don't care about efficiency, a 265/35R19 MPS4S is an amazing setup for street tires. If you're buying new wheels, you really want to buy 9.5". You'll gain way more grip than you give up due to the few extra ounces.
My advice: Buy the wheels you like the looks of- you will never notice the weight unless you are doing timed events. Get a wide-ish wheel and tire, which will make a difference.
Jova makes monoblock forged wheels, in as good of quality as anything else you will find, in that price range, and they will customize them in any spec you want. Plenty of people have bought them and been using them for a few years now, and I don't think a single person has had an issue beyond me when I ordered the very first set from them and the holes for the studs were a bit too tight (which they modified on all sets after that)
I had seen that acceleration wasn't effected to any significant degree with wheel weight or size, I have not seen anything on the effects of lighter on handling and feel of the car?
This is great, just what i was looking for, Thank You.
I've done alot of research on this forum over the last year, but its hard to find everything its a huge amount of threads to sort through. Im coming from 15 years on the same sport bike forum where i knew most everyone... Then i bought a Tesla and now Im hooked. So thanks for all the guidence.
@gigg Wheel+tire weight definitely affects steering feel! Switching from the stock Uberturbine setup to forged 18x8.5" Titan7 T-S5 wheels with 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport tires, the steering wheel became easier to turn, especially in quick back-and-forth turns when tearing up the twisties, almost as if the power steering was just slightly struggling to keep up before with the weight of the Uberturbines. (I'm not claiming the power steering actually struggled before, just that's the impression I got from comparing the highly subjective "feel" before and after.)
No loss of steering feel nor any loss of response or precision that I could detect, though if you put on mushy tires, then the taller sidewall would really accentuate the mushiness, in my past experience (e.g. snow tires on smaller wheels). Also I was on the mushy stock 2021 M3P suspension when I made the wheel+tire change. Now I'm on Redwood Performance Sport coilovers with a few Redwood and MPP bushing upgrades. Steering response at the limit is VASTLY better from the suspension upgrades (it was awful on stock suspension), so I'm sure I could detect more subtle steering response changes now.
At the same time ride quality got better with 18" of course. The Potenza Sport are definitely firm, sporty tires but that works well with the taller 245/45R18 sidewalls.
Lastly grip greatly improved wet and dry, but I'm sure that's just thanks to the tires, I doubt the wheel change itself has any meaningful impact on grip that I would be able to feel.
Only downside to these particular tires that I noticed is they are a bit louder than the stock Tesla spec foam lined PZ4, which were very quiet for a performance tire. The Potenza Sport aren't too loud at all as performance tires go, I've had much louder tires (on past cars), but they're not as quiet as the PZ4 or a typical touring tire.
On the flip side noise wise, the PZ4 we're actually super loud with squealing in hard driving, and the Potenza Sport thankfully don't squeal. So the new tires are quieter when having proper driving fun.
Last lastly, I don't claim any real handling performance benefit from lighter wheels. Maybe there would be a measureable benefit in the hands of a consistent pro driver on a racetrack, maybe not. I don't track this car so that's not a concern of mine. I do drive it hard and fast through the twisties pretty often, but I'm definitely not racing, so I just care how the car feels and responds, I don't really care if it's a little faster or slower. (Though it's definitely faster through such roads now than stock.)
That said I was never quite happy with the grip when stock, and I am satisfied with the grip it has now. My car doesn't grip like a cambered out track rat on sticky track tires of course, but the overall handling and feel are absolutely top notch now for how I actually use the car.
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Thanks. Thats what i am chasing, the best feeling car i can get in the twisties, Same thing i was chasing on my bike for 20 years. The bike is so weather dependent, dry and 60-90 f or its parked. Car in the wet has been fun to just work on lines, vision and smooth controls, in a temperature controlled cage, and now at the age of 55 "hard to believe". I am very happy to hear that weight is not a major contributor, because that is an expensive never ending pursuit, but more manageable, and affordable on a bike. I do have the mod itch (researching and wrenching to get a better feeling and looking car), and im going to run out of things quickly. esthetics is tricky because i don't want to do anything that looks not performance based and not much to do ( i did a color matched UPP front lip that looks great and subtle, and im sure with all the added downforce the car is handling much better. Wheels will keep me occupied for a while, ive done the fluid and pads, I may work on brakes next. I don't need them but maybe get better feel and i will want to see a nice rotor behind new wheels . Very therapeutic post... Thx again!@gigg Wheel+tire weight definitely affects steering feel! Switching from the stock Uberturbine setup to forged 18x8.5" Titan7 T-S5 wheels with 245/45R18 Bridgestone Potenza Sport tires, the steering wheel became easier to turn, especially in quick back-and-forth turns when tearing up the twisties, almost as if the power steering was just slightly struggling to keep up before with the weight of the Uberturbines. (I'm not claiming the power steering actually struggled before, just that's the impression I got from comparing the highly subjective "feel" before and after.)
No loss of steering feel nor any loss of response or precision that I could detect, though if you put on mushy tires, then the taller sidewall would really accentuate the mushiness, in my past experience (e.g. snow tires on smaller wheels). Also I was on the mushy stock 2021 M3P suspension when I made the wheel+tire change. Now I'm on Redwood Performance Sport coilovers with a few Redwood and MPP bushing upgrades. Steering response at the limit is VASTLY better from the suspension upgrades (it was awful on stock suspension), so I'm sure I could detect more subtle steering response changes now.
At the same time ride quality got better with 18" of course. The Potenza Sport are definitely firm, sporty tires but that works well with the taller 245/45R18 sidewalls.
Lastly grip greatly improved wet and dry, but I'm sure that's just thanks to the tires, I doubt the wheel change itself has any meaningful impact on grip that I would be able to feel.
Only downside to these particular tires that I noticed is they are a bit louder than the stock Tesla spec foam lined PZ4, which were very quiet for a performance tire. The Potenza Sport aren't too loud at all as performance tires go, I've had much louder tires (on past cars), but they're not as quiet as the PZ4 or a typical touring tire.
On the flip side noise wise, the PZ4 we're actually super loud with squealing in hard driving, and the Potenza Sport thankfully don't squeal. So the new tires are quieter when having proper driving fun.
Last lastly, I don't claim any real handling performance benefit from lighter wheels. Maybe there would be a measureable benefit in the hands of a consistent pro driver on a racetrack, maybe not. I don't track this car so that's not a concern of mine. I do drive it hard and fast through the twisties pretty often, but I'm definitely not racing, so I just care how the car feels and responds, I don't really care if it's a little faster or slower. (Though it's definitely faster through such roads now than stock.)
That said I was never quite happy with the grip when stock, and I am satisfied with the grip it has now. My car doesn't grip like a cambered out track rat on sticky track tires of course, but the overall handling and feel are absolutely top notch now for how I actually use the car.
From where?? I'm seeing they're $500 usd each!My autox 19x10 MRR M600's were $860
My street 19x9.5 Forgestars were double that
Both have bigger than 70.1mm hub bores
