Age of Google Maps used by Tesla?

[Peter 224]

The "Satellite View" provided by Google to Tesla, and as used on their Google Maps PC/Phone apps is becoming so dated it isn't funny. On the south side of Salisbury by the A36 we have a Premier Inn and Mc Donalds drive through, built in 2017/2018 and opened in 2019. Google shows the site as a green field, but the TomTom maps and Google without Satellite show the Hotel and drive through.
Using views that are at least 4 years old of built up areas isn't very helpful....
Does anyone know how often Google updates its images?

 

[Irata]

For the satellite view, I've noticed an update every 3 or 4 years on average. Where I live it has just been updated, I see my M3 on the driveway now. That's an average though, some areas are updated yearly while others have not been updated for 10 years.

The satellite view for the UK is actually images taken from a small plane, some areas are updated more frequently than others and is very much weather permitting.

I don't think the images are ever intended for reliable navigation, it's really just a gimmick.

I would guess you are likely to see an update within the next year.

 

[MrBadger]

It’s only the last year or so since we got our solar panels on Google satellite view - they were installed in 2013! I’ve not bothered to check the car version.

Not that it’s relevant to the car, but street view is also a bit of a mash. Part of our road is quite recent (2018 - I can name the date as I spotted the car on a run and the street view has me in it staring at the car) but other part of road is much older, around 2008. Which was probably similar time frame to previous satellite view.

Add in the Tesla frequency of nav updates (assume satellite is not stored locally though so not same time frames) and even less frequently of them getting them right and not being rolled back, you end up with navigation data potentially being years out.

 

[Irata]

The satellite images are only cached locally on the car, they are all downloaded via a Google maps API which Tesla pays Google to provide. Google is responsible for the actual images, same with the map that's actually displayed (but not the map used for navigation, which is what is downloaded).

 

[Peter 224]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate that background.

 

[Smileysam]

The Tesla version of Google maps is crap compared to the regular Google maps. It's about time they added the speed camera notifications.

 

[MrBadger]

Google is responsible for the actual images, same with the map that's actually displayed (but not the map used for navigation, which is what is downloaded)

How does that work with navigation/routing being handled server side?

Certainly in the states when smart summon first came out many people were tweaking open street maps (OSM) to ensure that their local car parks were accurate enough for the car to 'route plan' around them. Not having in depth insight of what data is behind google maps, I cannot comment on the cars behaviour vs what google maps says, but I can say that having looked at a a few transitions of speed limit data from a couple of road sections that they match that from OSM very closely, even to the point where speed limits 'change' (only because visually the car incorrectly picks up adjacent limits) and then correctly reverts exactly match OSM segments. Now the same may be true of the underlying data but as a large proportion of OSM data in the UK originally originated from Ordinance Survey, if there are similarities one may start to question the true originator of some of the underlying data, at least in the UK.

Having worked on a non profit commercial project heavily dependent on mapping data (to the point that we used it for route planning and simulation), I can say that OSM is particularly tricky to work within the license agreement. I would be surprised if Tesla were using it without there being obvious signs, such as ensuring that any derived work based upon the mapping was freely accessible to others. But people were adamant that their OSM changes were somehow being utilised by smart summon. So I'm not really sure what to think and I suspect Tesla use a number of sources for different purposes - some obvious for their source such as car satellite, visualised traffic data (both Google), but others less obvious such as underlying vector data for on screen maps (by its behaviour I suspect it is rasterised into tiles at various zoom levels then cached) or for traffic data used by Teslas servers when route planning.

 

[UncleCreepy]

How does that work with navigation/routing being handled server side?

The map data does not necessarily match the satellite image. The map data is updated more frequently than the satellite images. Here is an example:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.ca

The intersection became a roundabout a few years ago. The map data correctly shows a roundabout while the satellite image still hasn't been updated and shows an intersection.
It's kind of weird when you use the navigation and it tells you "at the roundabout, take the second exit" but when you look at the map there's just an intersection.

 

[Irata]

Yep, exactly as said above.

It's possible to see a navigation route that doesn't match the displayed road. I've seen this also here in the UK.

Tesla wanted their own (I use this term loosely) navigation data, including speed limit information.

Google data really is only used for actual display.

Someone else may know the reasons for this?

 

[DrJFoster]

I think there are several data sources :

- the satellite images (maybe taken from a plane) which update ever few years. Where I live I can date it to 2 weeks back around Easter this year because a neighbour was having a new roof at the time, but in general I think these change every few years. They serve no purpose other than to look pretty

- the road map visual we see from google and overlaid on the satellite image if you have that turned on and from past experience this updates reasonably quickly. I have always presumed Google takes the flow of data from android phones which it uses to build its traffic information to know that when too many cars drive across a field, its no longer a field, it is certainly what seemed to happen when they built a new road off the M6 towards Manchester airport 4 or 5 years ago. This information isn't used for navigation either

- the displayed traffic information on the screen from google. Same above, it's live but plays no part in navigation.

- a downloaded map to the car that I think is either open maps, I think some say tomtom if thats different. That map was for many 2019 until recently and gets out of date, you can see the version on the software screen. This is used for navigation.

- traffic information for navigation. You never actually see this but its a different traffic info feed than than the google one. This is why we sometimes get road blocked shown by google but the car Nav routes you straight to it, and a clear road but the sat nav still thinks there is a problem and tries to route you around it.

The TL;DR is what you see has nothing to do with what is used for the actual sat nav,

 

[teaston]

As said above, the satellite views are dependant on weather conditions, if a newer view is worse quality than the older one, then Google maps keeps using the older one.

On Google Earth you can actually see all versions of satellite view and the dates they were taken:

 

[CMc1]

You can see the version in bottom right corner of the satellite image in the car. Or at least used to a few month back. Usually hidden behind music controls if they are peaking up.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

I don't think it's OSM.. roads that are correct in OSM (including new roads that were correct on day 1 in OSM) are incorrect in tesla navigation. Although the update frequency of tesla nav being once every couple of years means it's always going to be out of date.. treat the nav as a suggestion not a rule (which goes for most in-car navs).

 

[Overworked]

I drove along the A75 in Scotland from Gretna to Cairnryan last week. What was particularly annoying was that the mapping has large parts of the route marked as 40mph and Autosteer becomes erratic or unusable (unless or until I work out how it can be overridden). Whilst this is the correct speed for HGV'S it was the wrong speed for cars where it is mainly 60mph.

Who or how should we notify to get these bugs reported?

 

[teaston]

I drove along the A75 in Scotland from Gretna to Cairnryan last week. What was particularly annoying was that the mapping has large parts of the route marked as 40mph and Autosteer becomes erratic or unusable (unless or until I work out how it can be overridden). Whilst this is the correct speed for HGV'S it was the wrong speed for cars where it is mainly 60mph.

Who or how should we notify to get these bugs reported?

Some have said it’s based on Tomtom, so reporting it on their map corrections page will eventually filter down to Tesla maps.

Others have said you can use the voice control to “report a bug, incorrect speed limit”, with many saying that the error is fixed soon after, but others saying it didn’t get fixed.

 

[MrBadger]

Speed limits are visually derived from most speed signs - but not on motorways and some major roads - I have found a close correlation between roads that are NoA capable and those that use map based speed limits. Don't know if A75 is visual or not, but sounds like it is and is incorrectly using the HGV signs as the limit - there is a recent thread on here similar or same circumstances. If visual based, nothing to do with the maps. If its not visual, map updates seem to come around on a roughly yearly basis, but have been known to be rolled back so they can be several years old even if the underlying data is up to date.

 

[teaston]

Speed limits are visually derived from most speed signs - but not on motorways and some major roads - I have found a close correlation between roads that are NoA capable and those that use map based speed limits. Don't know if A75 is visual or not, but sounds like it is and is incorrectly using the HGV signs as the limit - there is a recent thread on here similar or same circumstances. If visual based, nothing to do with the maps. If its not visual, map updates seem to come around on a roughly yearly basis, but have been known to be rolled back so they can be several years old even if the underlying data is up to date.

Yes, mine is mostly wrong on dual carriageways, as they don’t have speed signs.

The A1270 (Norwich northern bypass/NDR) is wrong at both ends saying it’s 60, but only in one direction! The other direction on the exact same stretches of road correctly display as 70!

 

[Peter 224]

Driving into Salisbury on the A36, a trunk road the dual carriageway merges into a single carriageway road and the speed limit drops from 70 to 40. There are clear 40 signs on each side, but the Tesla is regularly confused.
My co-pilot took this photo recently...
Clearly a very confused Autopilot.
40 on the left, as it should be, but where did the unrestricted sign on the right come from? It is not there, it is a 40 sign to match the one on the left!

 

[AndrewGR]

Occurs to me that correctly establishing the speed limit must be one of the easier parts of providing a ‘self driving’ car. Tesla seem to have a way to go.

 

[Drew57]

When I view the vehicle location on the app (4.1.1-667) it displays

Maps in the bottom LH corner - is this because I use an iPhone & if so why? ....if the car itself uses Google Mapping. (& does the Android app show Google Maps?)