Airstream/Thor introduce the eStream concept

[ohmman]

Today Airstream and Thor announced the eStream, an electrified Airstream that has motorized wheels and a large skateboard battery. While this is technically a travel trailer, it's also an EV in itself, which is why I've placed this thread in the forum location I have.

Details from Thor: Meet the eStream

Video:

Some details from their presentations:

• Because of the independent drive, stability algorithms remove the need for weight distribution hitches
• Remote control allows you to drive the trailer into the campsite in any positioning you prefer
• Power outlet on the pack for charging your tow vehicle while stationed at camp

A lot of unanswered questions, of course. Cost, battery capacity, travel trailer weight, tongue weight, regenerative braking ability, vehicle interaction, etc. But it's a neat concept and it's exciting to see this progress.

 

[tivoboy]

LOVE it… I really like the fact that it has a battery sled underneath for power.. what would be truly amazing is if the TOWING could actually recharge the battery so that when you get your hopefully, EV to your destination you could also use the power from the sled to recharge your EV? Of course, having the battery sled on the ESTREAM is great for power at location, but I wouldn’t mind having some gas generation for onsite power using the EV STREAM to recharge the EV.

 

[Solarman004]

@ohmman , I saw it on Electrek this afternoon and suspected it would get your attention!
EV Stream

 

[ThomasD]

If you are only able to charge the tow vehicle and not the trailer that is a lot of dead weight to tow around

 

[ohmman]

If you are only able to charge the tow vehicle and not the trailer that is a lot of dead weight to tow around

It's definitely one more thing to manage. The trailer should have adjustable power settings, though - you don't have to take the entire load off of the car, just enough for the car to make it to the next charging location easily. And at speed, the aerodynamics are the main component of drag, not weight. Climbing a steep pass, on the other hand..

 

[ecarfan]

This announcement by Airstream is potentially a very exciting development in the world of EV towing. I’ve been tracking that idea since a few years ago when Dethleffs in Europe announced the “e Coco” trailer which was the first RV trailer with a big battery pack and electrically driven wheels to make towing easier using technology from ZF, reducing energy usage for an ICE or an EV tow vehicle. See Dethleffs e.home coco and Towing with an EV: Are electric trailers the future?

But Dethleff’s has been slow to bring that trailer to market and there is no indication it will be available in North America. The Airstream eStream obviously will be sold here.

My biggest concern about the eStream is not that they won’t get the tech right, but that it will be twice as expensive as an Airstream of the same size and therefore the potential market will be very small. Airstreams are already very expensive for what you get. I am also concerned about the weight; Airstreams are extremely heavy compared to what I currently tow, a Safari Condo Alto. A comparably sized Alto is about 50% lighter and cheaper than an Airstream and the construction is higher quality. I am expecting the eStream to be well over US$100,000 and be up to three times the weight of my 2,200 lb (fully loaded) trailer. The eStream appears to be about 17-18 ft, which is a good size for my needs (my Alto is 17.5 ft) but in my opinion few are going to pay over around US$70K for such a small trailer. Keep in mind that a new Airstream Bambi 19 ft model is US$62K with no options.

I hope I am wrong about the eStream price, but knowing Airstream I’m afraid I will be right. And with a small market there won’t be any economy of scale like there is in the automobile industry to drive the cost down.

I would still seriously consider an eStream if they do a good job implementing the new tech and it is not inordinately heavy (but they will have to offer an interior design scheme that is not so offensive to the eyes as the one shown in that video ;-) . I was happy to see a Model X featured prominently in the video!

What I would really like to see is a new “pure electric” RV company come along with some truly innovative product offerings. The RV industry needs a Tesla-style disruption.

 

[gglockner]

I saw this announcement and my first reaction was: cool, increased towing range!
My second reaction was: oh snap, now you have to charge two vehicles!

Charging two vehicles is a real problem on a road trip. Will the Airstream support fast charging? For a Tesla, that's a double problem - now you have to park the trailer at a CCS charger and the Tesla at a Supercharger, at least until Tesla officially supports CCS in the Americas. (Sorry, the Setec/Lectron dongle is an unreliable kludge).

 

[Kandiru]

Amazing concept, the sooner it makes it into production, the better.

Imagine a Model 3 "towing" a giant trailer, what a sight.

 

[gglockner]

I saw this announcement and my first reaction was: cool, increased towing range!
My second reaction was: oh snap, now you have to charge two vehicles!

Charging two vehicles is a real problem on a road trip. Will the Airstream support fast charging? For a Tesla, that's a double problem - now you have to park the trailer at a CCS charger and the Tesla at a Supercharger, at least until Tesla officially supports CCS in the Americas. (Sorry, the Setec/Lectron dongle is an unreliable kludge).

I should add: my third reaction is: the eStream probably costs about as much as a Bowlus.

 

[ohmman]

I would still seriously consider an eStream if they do a good job implementing the new tech and it is not inordinately heavy

I'm guessing it'll be difficult to keep it from being heavy considering the battery pack and the "feature set" that Airstream likes to provide. However, I understand that they are cognizant of the challenges facing EV owners and may be considering more lightweight materials than they've traditionally used.

Charging two vehicles is a real problem on a road trip. Will the Airstream support fast charging? For a Tesla, that's a double problem - now you have to park the trailer at a CCS charger and the Tesla at a Supercharger, at least until Tesla officially supports CCS in the Americas. (Sorry, the Setec/Lectron dongle is an unreliable kludge).

This is why I think that Airstream will have to make it an electric assist, not entirely self-propelled. In doing so, you could easily go three charging stops before needing to charge the trailer, and in many cases that means charging at the campsite (if electricity is available). I do think charging on the road will be inconvenient, but campsite charging shouldn't be too bad so long as you're staying longer than an overnight. For a simple overnight, charging both the car and camper from the pedestal will likely be far too much, but if you're parked for two days, the camper will have all day to charge.

They did announce that it'll support fast DC charging.

I look at what we've done so far with our Airstream and even a small assist would make a big difference on certain runs. I think it has promise, but like everyone I wonder if the benefits will be worth the eventual price tag. I also think of it this way - most people park their camper for extended periods of time. It seems a shame to have such a sizable pack sitting idle for most of the year when those batteries could be better used in a vehicle.

 

[gglockner]

This is why I think that Airstream will have to make it an electric assist, not entirely self-propelled. In doing so, you could easily go three charging stops before needing to charge the trailer, and in many cases that means charging at the campsite (if electricity is available). I do think charging on the road will be inconvenient, but campsite charging shouldn't be too bad so long as you're staying longer than an overnight.

Single night charging seems like a big hassle. Few campgrounds can charge both an EV and a trailer in a single site. Sequential charging would be fine for multi-day stays.

 

[Unclepaul]

Instead of looking at what it cannot do...look at what it CAN do.

Many RVers don't drive long distances. They usually drive less than 200 miles, or about 4 hours at most. Going from campground to campground, and staying several nights at each would allow you to charge up during your stay, and never need to stop along the way to charge. Could be super convenient and much less expensive that buying gas or diesel.

Large battery could allow you to boondock for weeks, without a noisy generator. Solar built into the roof could be used to top off during the day.

Management of capacity between car and trailer could optimize power available as needed.

While this obviously would be more expensive (at least at first) it could also provide a remarkable camping experience for some.

This transition could transform the camping experience. No more neighbors with stinky diesels or loud generators.

Next step would be to have campgrounds require campers to wear personal ear pieces to listen to loud music or outside TVs. Could really quiet down natural campsites.

 

[ohmman]

Next step would be to have campgrounds require campers to wear personal ear pieces to listen to loud music or outside TVs. Could really quiet down natural campsites.

Yes, please! And ideally, bluetooth speakers would be verboten on hiking trails.

 

[gglockner]

Yes, please! And ideally, bluetooth speakers would be verboten on hiking trails.

Using a bluetooth speaker on hiking trails is grounds for the death penalty.

 

[tm1v2]

I saw this announcement and my first reaction was: cool, increased towing range!
My second reaction was: oh snap, now you have to charge two vehicles!

Charging two vehicles is a real problem on a road trip. Will the Airstream support fast charging? For a Tesla, that's a double problem - now you have to park the trailer at a CCS charger and the Tesla at a Supercharger, at least until Tesla officially supports CCS in the Americas. (Sorry, the Setec/Lectron dongle is an unreliable kludge).

Either the car or the trailer should support pass-through charging of the other. That would make this concept work best.

Or maybe a standalone power sharing L2 charge splitter could be built...

 

[gglockner]

Either the car or the trailer should support pass-through charging of the other. That would make this concept work best.

Or maybe a standalone power sharing L2 charge splitter could be built...

This seems like only a minor improvement in convenience. You're still limited by the 30A or 50A service at the campsite, regardless whether you charge the vehicles sequentially or simultaneously.

 

[tm1v2]

@gglockner I had charging-specific stops in mind. At an actual camping stop, I agree not a big deal, at least as long as a really beefy extension cord could be used so you don't need to actually juggle the trailer and vehicle around. (Don't know if 240V high amperage extension cords for EV charging are considered okay/safe or not.)

I've juggled 2 EVs with 1 charging outlet / connector, in fact still doing that at times, and I find it somewhat annoying. One 240V 50A circuit is plenty for both overnight, that's not the issue, the problem is literally moving them around, blocking the street/driveway/whatever-is-there, having the wrong vehicle blocked in when you need it, having to swap them in the middle of the night, etc. Not deal breaker, definitely a 1st world problem, but to me one of the best aspects of EVs is the convenience of charging. Maximizing that convenience is important to me.

 

[ecarfan]

I think that Airstream will have to make it an electric assist, not entirely self-propelled

The Dethleffs e Coco trailer appears to be partially self propelled. Here is what it says on their website : “A traction relief module ensures in trailer operation that the two engines reduce the trailer load for the towing vehicle to a predefined value - for example, 100 kilograms.” (Amusing the use of the word “engines” for the electric motors).

If that value was user selectable, and the trailer software communicated with the EV tow vehicle software to optimize energy usage based on the driving range goal, that would be useful.

In doing so, you could easily go three charging stops before needing to charge the trailer, and in many cases that means charging at the campsite (if electricity is available).

That would be a vast improvement over the current state of affairs.

Don't know if 240V high amperage extension cords for EV charging are considered okay/safe or not.

I’ve used a 15 ft Camco 240V/50A rated extension cord many times to charge my Model X at campsites where the electrical pedestal was inconveniently placed at the rear of the campsite and my Tesla cable was not long enough.

 

[ecarfan]

You're still limited by the 30A or 50A service at the campsite, regardless whether you charge the vehicles sequentially or simultaneously.

Campgrounds I have used that offer both a TT-30 (30A) and NEMA 14-50 (50A) at their sites may not be capable of handling the current draw if both plugs are in use, since the design intent was to support charging either a big Class A rig or a smaller RV. I have on occasion plugged into both when I wanted to charge my trailer batteries and my car but I dial the car charging amperage way down to around 20A to be safe. Since I will typically be able to keep the car plugged in for 16 hours or more, that’s enough.

Really looking forward to getting detailed specs for the eStream and seeing one in person.

 

[croman]

I'm pretty much dead set on this trailer but let's see the final specs and product. 100k is a lot but it has the clear potential to deliver that kind of value for an EV only household. Since I don't have an existing trailer and am in the market, it makes sense to wait and make decisions in a year when Thor says the RV will be ready. Trailer to follow.