Airstream Towing Equipment Recommendations - Sport or Nest

[mengwong]

Hey folks, in September 2018 I'm likely to put my wheels on the market – 2016 Model X 75D and 2018 22FB Sport – so if anyone wants to do a direct sale and bypass the dealers, post here and maybe we can work something out.

I bought the Airstream last November. It has seen about nine months of full-time use; all the teething problems have been resolved, including replacement of fresh water pump under warranty due to failure of check valve, replacement of kitchen overhead cabinets due to sagging, and fixing a rivet that popped out. The Model X is a 6 seater with PUP, gray exterior, white interior. It had about 6000 miles on it when I bought it used last September and will probably have 28,000 miles on it by this time next month. The X got broken into when I parked it on the street in Oakland, so it's had the rear liftgate window and rear right passenger side window replaced; the only lingering symptom of that trauma is a piece of glass that rattles when you open the trunk.

It comes with accessories including ChaDeMo adapter, car cover, tire repair kit, and Tekonsha P3 brake controller installed. The hitch is factory standard; commando has been just fine. If you want it "fully furnished" with a set of road-tested kitchenware, I could probably throw in service for 8, an induction cooker, Instant Pot Ultra, utensils, etc. Even the interior lighting job can stay if you want.

I chose the Airstream + Tesla combo after I started a one-year fellowship at Stanford. I didn't want to spend money on Palo Alto rent, and it has been by far the better choice. It's been a blast traveling around the Bay Area and meeting some delightful neighbors. The trailer has spent time at

• Yosemite Pines RV Resort
• Healdsburg, Sonoma County, at Alexander Valley RV Park
• Half Moon Bay RV Park
• Trailer Villa in San Mateo
• Coyote Point in San Mateo
• Santa Cruz Redwoods RV Park & Cotillion Gardens next door
• Petaluma KOA
• Coachland RV Park in Truckee

One place I have not taken it is Burning Man and I do not intend to.

Now the fellowship is coming to an end and I'm ready to give it up as I move in the fall to greener pastures in a different land.

 

[Atlantian]

I've been busy planning my trip and had to delay it a couple of weeks while waiting for our new Model X 100D. Here is a picture of our new rig.

After pulling the Airstream over 400 miles I came up with a short list of questions that I hope everyone pulling a trailer with their Model X can help me with.

1. Do you ever leave the trailer attached to the Model X while camping? If so, do you put down the trailer tongue jack to release weight off the hitch since it is only rated for 500 lbs. or do you actually unlatch the hitch and jack the tongue up so that there is no weight on the hitch at all?

2. Do you run the refrigerator when you travel? If so, are you using 12V or propane?

3. What settings do you use when you plan your trips with EVTO-Tesla? Specifically what values do you use for "Payload" and "Power Factor"? Are there any other tweaks to EVTO-Tesla that you recommend?

4. When plugging in at a campground using the 30 amp for the Airstream and the 50 amp for the Model X, what amperage do you change the Model X at if you have the AC running in the Airstream? I was at our campground in Cathedral City, CA and was able to charge at 24 amps with the AC on full in the trailer without any issue.

5. What brake power level and boost level do you have the Prodigy brake controller set at? Also does the Sport 22 have electric over hydraulic or just electric brakes? I am having some issues with the Prodigy RF brake controller pairing with the new 100D (it worked great with the 2016 90D). eTrailer thinks it is the brake controller while other's claim that Tesla stopped supplying 12V power to the aux pin of the 7 way. Anyway, I will be replacing the RF controller with a Prodigy P3 this weekend.

6. Now that I am pulling a trailer, my range anxiety has increased! I will be taking a route from 1050 S State St, Salina, UT, 84654 to the Green River, UT Supercharger. It is 107 miles with absolutely nothing between the 2 points (no gas, no electricity, nothing). Here is a image of the route showing the elevation changes as well as EVTO-Tesla estimation. Would you feel comfortable taking this route in a 100D with a 100% charge? As you can see I climb from 5200 ft to 7900 ft then down to 5600 ft and back up to 7300 ft before finally going all down hill to 4100 ft. I'm not sure I believe the "Consumption" page on EVTO-Tesla! The Wh/mil seems very flat.

Thanks for your replies and comments!

 

[ohmman]

1. Do you ever leave the trailer attached to the Model X while camping? If so, do you put down the trailer tongue jack to release weight off the hitch since it is only rated for 500 lbs. or do you actually unlatch the hitch and jack the tongue up so that there is no weight on the hitch at all?

Yes, frequently on overnight stops on a journey I do this. I always put down the tongue jack, and almost always extend the stabilizers, otherwise the camper is a bit rocky for my taste.

2. Do you run the refrigerator when you travel? If so, are you using 12V or propane?

I use propane on the refrigerator when traveling. The 12V really saps the battery, and despite having the 7-pin hooked up, I don’t want to put unnecessary stress on the battery. It’s important to pre-cool the refrigerator before trips. I hook up to shore power at the house a few days in advance, and load the refrigerator with three large cool-packs from my freezer. This tends to get the refrigerator to a stable temperature before departure.

3. What settings do you use when you plan your trips with EVTO-Tesla? Specifically what values do you use for "Payload" and "Power Factor"? Are there any other tweaks to EVTO-Tesla that you recommend?

I adjust payload, but generally keep it around 4500. Power Factor 20. Max Speed 55.

4. When plugging in at a campground using the 30 amp for the Airstream and the 50 amp for the Model X, what amperage do you change the Model X at if you have the AC running in the Airstream? I was at our campground in Cathedral City, CA and was able to charge at 24 amps with the AC on full in the trailer without any issue.

I dial down the amperage to nearly the minimum required to properly charge the car by morning. Sometimes I adjust it, starting off at a high amperage (if I’m not using AC as you mention) and then tapering down before I do turn on the AC. But usually 15-20A is enough to do the job. I don’t want to throw a breaker at the campground and cause any distaste for electric vehicle charging.

5. What brake power level and boost level do you have the Prodigy brake controller set at? Also does the Sport 22 have electric over hydraulic or just electric brakes? I am having some issues with the Prodigy RF brake controller pairing with the new 100D (it worked great with the 2016 90D). eTrailer thinks it is the brake controller while other's claim that Tesla stopped supplying 12V power to the aux pin of the 7 way. Anyway, I will be replacing the RF controller with a Prodigy P3 this weekend.

I’m overseas right now so I can’t check, but I calibrated those settings as directed in the manual. You perform a braking test to get the right levels. I will occasionally reduce the levels so that I don’t lose kinetic energy into braking, but in general I think it’s safest to keep it at the proper setting.

6. Now that I am pulling a trailer, my range anxiety has increased! I will be taking a route from 1050 S State St, Salina, UT, 84654 to the Green River, UT Supercharger. It is 107 miles with absolutely nothing between the 2 points (no gas, no electricity, nothing). Here is a image of the route showing the elevation changes as well as EVTO-Tesla estimation. Would you feel comfortable taking this route in a 100D with a 100% charge? As you can see I climb from 5200 ft to 7900 ft then down to 5600 ft and back up to 7300 ft before finally going all down hill to 4100 ft. I'm not sure I believe the "Consumption" page on EVTO-Tesla! The Wh/mil seems very flat.

Personally, I’d feel safe with that route. Remember to start slow and maintain a limited speed until you have a good sense of where you’ll be on consumption.

Good luck with the trip; it’s going to be a blast. Also, keep us informed on how it’s going.

 

[JimVandegriff]

I've been busy planning my trip and had to delay it a couple of weeks while waiting for our new Model X 100D. Here is a picture of our new rig.



After pulling the Airstream over 400 miles I came up with a short list of questions that I hope everyone pulling a trailer with their Model X can help me with.

1. Do you ever leave the trailer attached to the Model X while camping? If so, do you put down the trailer tongue jack to release weight off the hitch since it is only rated for 500 lbs. or do you actually unlatch the hitch and jack the tongue up so that there is no weight on the hitch at all?
Yes, we frequently leave the trailer attached. I echo Ohmman's advice - put down the tongue jack and lower the stabilizers.
2. Do you run the refrigerator when you travel? If so, are you using 12V or propane?
We run the frig on propane when on the road, but switch it to shore power at campgrounds that have electricity. Great advice from Ohmman about pre-cooling the frig before leaving.

3. What settings do you use when you plan your trips with EVTO-Tesla? Specifically what values do you use for "Payload" and "Power Factor"? Are there any other tweaks to EVTO-Tesla that you recommend?
Same reply as Ohmman.

4. When plugging in at a campground using the 30 amp for the Airstream and the 50 amp for the Model X, what amperage do you change the Model X at if you have the AC running in the Airstream? I was at our campground in Cathedral City, CA and was able to charge at 24 amps with the AC on full in the trailer without any issue.

We hardly ever use the AC, but we do keep the 50 amp circuit charging the car to a maximum of 28 amps. If we are using more power than usual for us with the 30 amp circuit, we lower the amperage for the car. I've talked to one too many campground hosts/owners that do not like Teslas because of circuit breakers faulting or tripping when Teslas draw too much power.

5. What brake power level and boost level do you have the Prodigy brake controller set at? Also does the Sport 22 have electric over hydraulic or just electric brakes? I am having some issues with the Prodigy RF brake controller pairing with the new 100D (it worked great with the 2016 90D). eTrailer thinks it is the brake controller while other's claim that Tesla stopped supplying 12V power to the aux pin of the 7 way. Anyway, I will be replacing the RF controller with a Prodigy P3 this weekend.

We have never adjusted our settings. Makes me think it is time to explore this!

6. Now that I am pulling a trailer, my range anxiety has increased! I will be taking a route from 1050 S State St, Salina, UT, 84654 to the Green River, UT Supercharger. It is 107 miles with absolutely nothing between the 2 points (no gas, no electricity, nothing). Here is a image of the route showing the elevation changes as well as EVTO-Tesla estimation. Would you feel comfortable taking this route in a 100D with a 100% charge? As you can see I climb from 5200 ft to 7900 ft then down to 5600 ft and back up to 7300 ft before finally going all down hill to 4100 ft. I'm not sure I believe the "Consumption" page on EVTO-Tesla! The Wh/mil seems very flat.

A 100D should do that just fine. Regen is remarkable. That said, I haven't been over that route, but am awaiting your report as we will be in Utah next spring!


Thanks for your replies and comments!

 

[JimVandegriff]

Sorry Atlantian. I incorporated my answers to your questions inside your post above. My general advice is the same as Ohmman's. I am so glad you are traveling. Jim

 

[Atlantian]

Thanks for your comments. I will keep everyone updated when I leave, my route and my experiences.

 

[KirkNason]

@JimVandegriff - I am serious about the Flying Cloud 19, put a refundable deposit down, and see the weight is the same as the Sport 22. How has the towing experience been with that much weight? Can you post pictures of the hitch / plugs you describe above (or link if you already p[osted? Did the Tesla 7prong plug do ok with the LED lights?
Thanks for any wisdom!!

 

[JimVandegriff]

@JimVandegriff - I am serious about the Flying Cloud 19, put a refundable deposit down, and see the weight is the same as the Sport 22. How has the towing experience been with that much weight? Can you post pictures of the hitch / plugs you describe above (or link if you already p[osted? Did the Tesla 7prong plug do ok with the LED lights?
Thanks for any wisdom!!

Hi Kirk,
I had to use an plug adapter (there are two that work) for the Tesla to recognize the LED lighting and the trailer. I detailed our adapter adventures in other threads (Initial trailer pulling report - 90D and Airstream 22ft Bambi Sport and X and Airstream Bambi - the new adventures 2017). You can also check out Ohmman's Airstream Adventures thread at Ohmman's Airstream Adventures for thoughts about Airstream.
The Flying Cloud is lovely. It is a bit wider than the 22 ft Bambi Sport that I have, and there has been some speculation about how this would affect mileage, but really, I don't know about that. In general you should plan on keeping your speed down, and that you will lose half your mileage (ie for a 90D the 256 mile range at 100% charge is cut down to 125 miles or so.)
Charging in campgrounds with power is really not a problem (you will become an electrical adapter expert), but you should prepare to charge at a lower amperage than you might otherwise if you have your camper plugged into shore power at the time you want to charge the car (I normally run the amperage which is adjustable in the car at 28 amps or less. If I'm running AC in the trailer I will run it much lower like at 20 amps so as not to trip circuit breakers in the campsite.)
The threads above, the Bowlus thread, and the Alto threads are all must reads. They will give you some insight into the nature of our electric adventures. Let us know what you decide, and bring your adventures to the group.
We are leaving on Sunday for a two week Oregon adventure up the coast and inland to Corvallis (and those lovely Eola-Amity wineries). It is so fun to do it with our Tesla and our Airstream.

 

[steilkurve]

Hello. Reviving an old thread here! I’m shopping around for an Airstream to tow with my 100D Model X. Started thinking about a 16 Sport but now considering a 20 Caravel or 22 Caravel or Sport, understanding the 22 sport would be better as it is narrower. I’m a novice when it comes to trailers and towing but it strikes me that pretty much only the 16 doesn’t go over Tesla’s 500 lbs hitch maximum but some seem to go over it, even using the OEM bosal adapter. Is 500 ok as long as you don’t reach 500. What am I missing? Thanks in advance for the assistance.

 

[ohmman]

Hello. Reviving an old thread here! I’m shopping around for an Airstream to tow with my 100D Model X. Started thinking about a 16 Sport but now considering a 20 Caravel or 22 Caravel or Sport, understanding the 22 sport would be better as it is narrower. I’m a novice when it comes to trailers and towing but it strikes me that pretty much only the 16 doesn’t go over Tesla’s 500 lbs hitch maximum but some seem to go over it, even using the OEM bosal adapter. Is 500 ok as long as you don’t reach 500. What am I missing? Thanks in advance for the assistance.

A note that the 22 Sport has been discontinued as of this model year, and they now have a 22' FB "Bambi" which is a full 8' wide. Airstream has abandoned the narrow body style. Personally, I wouldn't recommend anything wider than the 22 Sport, personally. The aerodynamic drag appears to be significantly higher based on anecdotal posts.

Regarding tongue weight limitations, they are just that. Limits to the amount of acceptable weight on the tongue. Campers rated at 500 lbs of tongue weight are going to likely be OK, but I'd shoot for ones that are less. Ours was published under 400 lbs of tongue weight, and we only now can reach that due to removing the lead-acid batteries from the A-frame. Stock, we were easily hitting 450+ lbs with empty tanks.

 

[steilkurve]

A note that the 22 Sport has been discontinued as of this model year, and they now have a 22' FB "Bambi" which is a full 8' wide. Airstream has abandoned the narrow body style. Personally, I wouldn't recommend anything wider than the 22 Sport, personally. The aerodynamic drag appears to be significantly higher based on anecdotal posts.

Regarding tongue weight limitations, they are just that. Limits to the amount of acceptable weight on the tongue. Campers rated at 500 lbs of tongue weight are going to likely be OK, but I'd shoot for ones that are less. Ours was published under 400 lbs of tongue weight, and we only now can reach that due to removing the lead-acid batteries from the A-frame. Stock, we were easily hitting 450+ lbs with empty tanks.

Thanks. And yes sorry, I realize the Sport is gone. Should have written Bambi. So as far as coming in under the tongue weight limitation, it looks like my options would be 16-ft trailers. Bambi is rated at 430 and Caravel at 490. 22 Caravel oddly enough is only 500. What you’re saying is that those are underestimated typically and that in the real world they’d go over? Thanks again for your help.

 

[ohmman]

Thanks. And yes sorry, I realize the Sport is gone. Should have written Bambi. So as far as coming in under the tongue weight limitation, it looks like my options would be 16-ft trailers. Bambi is rated at 430 and Caravel at 490. 22 Caravel oddly enough is only 500. What you’re saying is that those are underestimated typically and that in the real world they’d go over? Thanks again for your help.

Tongue weight is listed as dry weight (no load), which can be confusing since they also list GVWR which is fully loaded weight. So while you can work hard on maintaining balance and keeping the weight off of the tongue, it's tough to do and not always advisable anyway. A good 10%-15% of the trailer weight should be on the tongue for balance and stability on the road.

I would recommend looking for a 2019 22 Sport, which has the narrow body and will give you more range. You'll probably get this model at a significant discount since it's obsolete after this year. So it's kind of a win-win if you can make it work and if you like the camper enough. All of the 2020 models will provide reduced range, even the 16', because of the frontal area. That said, range isn't everything. I have a somewhat degraded 90D and my 22 Sport and we still just made it 2800 miles on a long camping trip. It just takes more planning. You'll learn your limitations once you have your rig and will hash out the logistics ahead of time. That's all it really takes.

 

[mengwong]

Ours was published under 400 lbs of tongue weight, and we only now can reach that due to removing the lead-acid batteries from the A-frame. Stock, we were easily hitting 450+ lbs with empty tanks.

I've found that moving a couple of heavy items to the rear of the airstream – e.g. stacking a couple of the bed's storage tubs in the toilet – is enough to shift the balance.

 

[ohmman]

I've found that moving a couple of heavy items to the rear of the airstream – e.g. stacking a couple of the bed's storage tubs in the toilet – is enough to shift the balance.

Definitely (we put a bin or two in the shower), but one does have to be cautious about balance. Tongue overloading is slightly more preferable to rear loading due to stability concerns.

 

[steilkurve]

Tongue weight is listed as dry weight (no load), which can be confusing since they also list GVWR which is fully loaded weight. So while you can work hard on maintaining balance and keeping the weight off of the tongue, it's tough to do and not always advisable anyway. A good 10%-15% of the trailer weight should be on the tongue for balance and stability on the road.

I would recommend looking for a 2019 22 Sport, which has the narrow body and will give you more range. You'll probably get this model at a significant discount since it's obsolete after this year. So it's kind of a win-win if you can make it work and if you like the camper enough. All of the 2020 models will provide reduced range, even the 16', because of the frontal area. That said, range isn't everything. I have a somewhat degraded 90D and my 22 Sport and we still just made it 2800 miles on a long camping trip. It just takes more planning. You'll learn your limitations once you have your rig and will hash out the logistics ahead of time. That's all it really takes.

Thanks ohmman. That’s good advice. I’ve looked around and can see one Sport 22 available for purchase and a couple for rental in my area. I’m thinking I’ll try the latter before jumping in fully with a purchase. Two more questions if I may. Do Bluetooth brake controllers work with the X? One of the renters is offering me that option before going ahead and installing anything permanently. Also, any thoughts on the Weigh Safe Adjustable Ball Mount with the X? Thinking the built in scale would be useful to balance load and avoid exceeding the 500 tongue limit.

 

[ohmman]

Do Bluetooth brake controllers work with the X? One of the renters is offering me that option before going ahead and installing anything permanently. Also, any thoughts on the Weigh Safe Adjustable Ball Mount with the X? Thinking the built in scale would be useful to balance load and avoid exceeding the 500 tongue limit.

I am unfamiliar with Bluetooth brake controllers, but I have seen some references on here as "wireless brake controllers." I believe they work, but you probably want to look into it first.

I am pretty sure @ecarfan has the Weigh Safe ball mount and likes it. Hopefully he'll chime in here now that I've tagged him.

 

[steilkurve]

I am unfamiliar with Bluetooth brake controllers, but I have seen some references on here as "wireless brake controllers." I believe they work, but you probably want to look into it first.

I am pretty sure @ecarfan has the Weigh Safe ball mount and likes it. Hopefully he'll chime in here now that I've tagged him.

Thanks. @ecarfan, would love your thoughts!

 

[steilkurve]

I am unfamiliar with Bluetooth brake controllers, but I have seen some references on here as "wireless brake controllers." I believe they work, but you probably want to look into it first.

I am pretty sure @ecarfan has the Weigh Safe ball mount and likes it. Hopefully he'll chime in here now that I've tagged him.

ohmman, another question for you if I may. Do I understand correctly that Model X now recognizes Airstream's LED lights and can manage them without adapters like Curt's?

 

[mengwong]

ohmman, another question for you if I may. Do I understand correctly that Model X now recognizes Airstream's LED lights and can manage them without adapters like Curt's?

When I started towing, my X needed the LED adapter. At some point a firmware upgrade may have happened because there have been times when I have not used the adapter and everything has worked just fine. Though I haven't exhaustively tested this claim; others in a position to reproduce are invited to confirm.

 

[steilkurve]

When I started towing, my X needed the LED adapter. At some point a firmware upgrade may have happened because there have been times when I have not used the adapter and everything has worked just fine. Though I haven't exhaustively tested this claim; others in a position to reproduce are invited to confirm.

Thanks mengwong. And may I ask, which adapter are you using? Tow Ready or Curt?