Alignment issue or something else?

[Avendit]

Hi all,

Just had my '3 back from tesla for its second visit to look at the wheel alignment. on delivery it was very dead around the mid point and the steering wheel wasn't centered. Got it back and the wheel was centered and the steering felt much more responsive, but something still wasn't right. A second visit got a 'its within tollerences' :/. This is a tough one to explain, so stick with me...

Wheel centred, the car absolutely goes straight ahead, no problems. But, you have to hold it there, although lightly. the wheel, and therefore the direction prefers to sit ~3 degrees to the right. I would describe this as the 'weighting' not being centred, but this seemed to really puzzle a wheel alignment centre I just spoke to. The result is more obvious with speed, and with moving from comfort -> normal -> sport. At A road speed (lets just call it 60 for the moment) it takes less turning pressure for me to take right bends than left, to quite a strong level as you get up speed, or want to make sharper turns. On the motorway its easy to drift to a right lane, but needs a firm hand on the wheel to get back to the left, and holding straight needs a little pressure to the left all the damn time.

At town speeds, although straight is indeed straight, going over some bumps or rough surface while only holding the steering lightly slowly causes the steering wheel to deviate to the right, needing constant correction.

It slowly loads up my shoulder on long motorway drives (when auto steer isn't on, which i do use more because of this) and feels down right odd when pushing on on quiet A or B roads.

It's obviously not normal? Did tesla do a cheat and straighten the steering wheel without straightening the steering? is it even an alignment issue? I can't really be assed fighting tesla about this again, but I'm not sure if any of the wheel alignment centres around Edinburgh will have up-to-date enough machines to deal with a model 3. I'm happy to pay to get it right without Tesla sneering at me for actually wanting my £50k car to be perfect. Anyone with any expertise on alignment issues able to comment?

P- on 18's if it matters.

Thanks for for your wisdom!
Avendit

 

[Jason71]

So something is clearly pulling it to the right so its probably either steering geometry or could it be a problem with the power steering?

As you kind of suggest it might be worth taking to a reputable tyre centre and getting the tracking etc checked. it will cost but less hassle than a trip to a service centre. if they fix it you can always complain to Tesla and send them the bill but good luck with that.

Power steering could surely account for both the steering wheel being pulled off centre and different resistance in each direction. I assume it is the same in all steering modes? I guess if you could get the front jacked up then put the wheel straight. if it still wants to turn the wheel then surely it must be the power steering? don't see how tracking or the like could affect it when stationary and wheels off the ground. There might also be an audible noise if the PS is kicking in. You could also see if the steering weight is still different in each direction with the wheels off the ground though that could be hard to measure with no loading.

 

[Avendit]

Cheers for the ideas. Now, 'reputable tire centre' an oxymoron if ever there was.

 

[pgkevet]

I had an alignment done on my S as part of it's 12 mth service (actually had only booked it in for a general look-over and brake service but Tesla like to make money). I did get a print out of the before and after figures and acceptable ranges so assume they gave you same? If not then it should be on their records and requestable.
I always thought that it was toe-in that kept a car driving straight/straightened the wheels after a bend so even if the steering wheel was mounted wrongly it ought to sel steer straight on a flat road. I do notice with my S that it'll squirrel slightly on different surfaces - as in one wheel goes on a road repaired patch or thick white line - perhaps a function of over sensitive traction control?
If the money doesn't bother you too much/for peace of mind getting the alignment figures checked independantly is a start. I'd bet it isn't the first time someone forgot to torque up the adjustment properly or it moved. or perhaps as simple as take the wheels off and replace.

 

[Avendit]

Found a local place and have booked in. Will update once I've visited.

Cheers for the feedback tho.

 

[Adopado]

Cheers for the ideas. Now, 'reputable tire centre' an oxymoron if ever there was.

Yes, it's really specialist sports car setup garage rather than a tyre centre, I would think.

 

[Adopado]

Found a local place and have booked in. Will update once I've visited.

Cheers for the feedback tho.

I'd be interested to know the ultimate outcome of this. It's a really frustrating problem. I had a car that displayed similar issues and could be adjusted correctly but still wasn't "right". The issue was finally fixed when a track rod end joint needed replaced .. picked up at MOT and not as part of the steering investigation. Once the track rod end was replaced it was perfect.

 

[Avendit]

The guy I spoke to who has a good rep on piston heads suspects given the initial problem it may have had a whack in transit. Should be interesting investigating...

 

[R4zb3rry]

Not Tesla but, I had similar issues with a brand new Skoda Fabia VRS some years ago - resolved by changing tyres (inc brand), recall it being something to do with asymmetric/non-asymmetric tyres and once changed it totally disappeared....now whether the dealer did anything else in the day they had it in I guess I’ll never know!

 

[ilyak]

First thing I would do is throw on a different set of tires. Uneven tire wear due to being out of alignment could easily cause the car to pull to one side.

 

[Avendit]

First thing I would do is throw on a different set of tires. Uneven tire wear due to being out of alignment could easily cause the car to pull to one side.

Even with just 2k on the car?

 

[ilyak]

Even with just 2k on the car?

Low mileage makes it less likely, but I had the stock MXM4s get severely frayed in under 5000 miles , likely due to the car being out of alignment on delivery. Got to the point where I thought I had a bad bearing. After Tesla did the alignment, they actually warned me that the car was pulling to the left due to how the tires were wearing. They then put a set of loaners on and it was perfect.

 

[Avendit]

Low mileage makes it less likely, but I had the stock MXM4s get severely frayed in under 5000 miles , likely due to the car being out of alignment on delivery. Got to the point where I thought I had a bad bearing. After Tesla did the alignment, they actually warned me that the car was pulling to the left due to how the tires were wearing. They then put a set of loaners on and it was perfect.

Did Tesla sort you out for new tires after that? Sounds nasty!

 

[NeilG40]

This sounds very similar to my 3 week old SR+ but the opposite way round, the steering wheel on mine is turned slightly to the left when going straight, it doesn't feel like its pulling to the right though as I can let go of the wheel and it's goes in a straight line. It's strange that if your gong at a lower speed and throwing the car in to corners going left or right doesn't really feel that much different but say your going 60mph on a long gentle curve it feels like going right needs more effort to move the wheel than it does when going left. I'm going to have to book it in at the service centre but it's finding the time.

 

[ilyak]

Did Tesla sort you out for new tires after that? Sounds nasty!

They did, after some back-and-forth. Being out-of-alignment on delivery is not unique to Tesla, unfortunately. Here's the rear wheel alignment on my mom's boyfriend's BMW X7 after less than 4k miles:

and the resulting tire wear:

 

[holmgang]

Suspension geometry is quantifiable. If they say its within specs, they can produce numbers to prove it.

Steering wheel centering is another issue. The car (=tie rods) can be adjusted so the front wheels are symmetrical, and yet the steering wheel isnt perfectly level. Some techs can do this well. Careless ones wont.

If your geometry is good, AND the steering wheel is centered, then you're good. IF the car still has a tendency to lean or pull, it is most likely the tires.

Even with just 2k on the car?

That strikes out the tires being uneven worn. But tire deformity (say, from manufacturing defect/variance) could be a cause. It is not typical with Michelin as they tend to have good QC. But extreme improper storage of tires can also lead to this behavior.

Easiest way to single out your tire/wheelset being the cause is to simply swap the wheels left to right. (Assuming the tires are not unidirectional thus it is safe to do so). If the car pulls or leans to the other direction, then there's your problem

 

[pdk42]

My car had an off centre steering wheel. MK SC "fixed" it. I watched it being done through the glass screen to the waiting area. Despite there being a Hunter alignment system there, they just tweaked it manually and took the car for a drive. They did two stabs at it and then announced it done. It's certainly better, but I'm not convinced it's right based on steering feel. I'm keeping an eye on tyre wear.

 

[Avendit]

My suspicion is that the steering is fundamentally off, they fixed both ends by aligning the wheels a bit then straightening the wheel, which would match your experience @pdk42. I'm going to ask for the alignement printouts, partly to take to the proper garage but mostly to see if they have them :-\

 

[ACarneiro]

Fascinating thread
Do keep us posted, I’m really interested to hear the outcome from the “proper” garage.
Sadly, it would surprise me not one bit if the Tesla SC has cocked it up...

 

[Avendit]

So, to finish this off...

Tesla promptly and with no hassle at all gave me the alignment sheet from the last round, and to be fair, it wasn't far off, and they had further corrected it:

I did have an independent booked to look at it on Tuesday, and there definitely was still a problem. But I just ran out of time to do the garage visit so I had to cancel it. But I had been thinking and realised it was time to start from the ground up and re-think this. So I checked the tire pressures (just using the TPMS) and found the back right to be 2 PSI lower than all the others. Didn't think it could make much difference, but in the interests of making sure I and tesla were not be dumb I added a bit of air.

And hey presto, straight lines, no pulling, weighting dead centre. All for the sake of 2 PSI . I've done 300 miles now of mixed A road and motorway and its definitely sorted.

Anyway, off to eat humble pie to Tesla, but also suggest that when they are doing alignments, given the ease of checking, that they establish equal tyre pressures from the outset :/

I don't have the sheet from the first alignment, but that was definitely waaaaay out, so at least one of these visits was really needed...

Moral of the story - watch your tyre pressures!