All discussion of Nikola Motors

[M|S|M MYP]

His whole exec team is full of his frat bro’s and sidekicks. His brother was a concrete layer in Hawaii and now all of a sudden...he’s a hydrogen expert? Heck, on one published exec team roster, there were only the initials S.S on the CTO’s bio. 0 emissions cause it doesn’t run and 0 HP cause it doesn’t run as well..... this isn’t gonna end well for him. oh yeah, come to find out the individual that did the SPAC for $NKLA also used to sit on the GM board and that is who introduced $NKLA to Mary and GM. Hmmmmmm..... something just does not add up in my opinion.

 

[HVM]

Nikola's Tesla Semi lawsuit what?

 

[smorgasbord]

You are seriously trying to support this by using Business Insider? All Tesla FUD all the time (at least at that time). Elon saying that unexpected problems with the initial Model 3 production caused Solar City projects to be neglected means that indeed things could have been done more optimally. It doesn't mean that the Solar City acquisition was a bad idea at the time.

And it had clearly turned out to be excellent. Tesla Energy would be far less that it is now without the acquisition. Although as it turned out it may have been cheaper and better for Tesla to let Solar City be bankrupted by short sellers and then acquire the remnants. Maybe. Who can tell?

But this thread isn't about Tesla. You are not boosting your credibility by raising this issue and making comparisons to Nikola.

You're not reading in context.

 

[Bet TSLA]

You're not reading in context.

I don't see any useful context. You are taking Elon's statement about what he would do then if he knew what he knows now, and then trying to make it mean that he thinks he should have done something different. Simply not true.

That's like "Well, I knew there was a tiny chance that driving to the grocery store would result in me being in a wheelchair for life, so I took the risk every day for the past ten years. Now that I know I actually got in a car accident one time and am in a wheelchair, if I could go back in time I wouldn't do it. I'd pay to have my groceries delivered." Just stupid and untrue. Things don't go as planned. If you don't run into one problem you run into another. See "The Appointment in Samarra" (W. Somerset Maugham's version).

 

[smorgasbord]

I don't see any useful context.

I was asked for the reference to Elon changing his mind, so I provided it.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with Nikola, so you can have the last word.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I was asked for the reference to Elon changing his mind, so I provided it.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with Nikola, so you can have the last word.

Um, Elon changes his mind all the time. No argument there. What you were claiming was that you were right to oppose the Solar City purchase and that Elon agreed with you. That wasn't supported by what you cited. And yes, this isn't about Nikola.

I think we're more or less agreed that Trevor Milton is lying scum. The only disagreement is on whether he'll hang for it.

 

[smorgasbord]

Nikola’s History of Discrepancies Has Been in Plain Sight

It doesn’t take a hedge fund or a private eye to determine that Nikola, which struck a partnership this week with General Motors Co., has a pattern of discrepancies. A look at some of its announcements and filings, along with statements and tweets by Executive Chairman Trevor Milton and other management over the past few years, yields other examples that weren’t part of Hindenburg’s report. “It’s a bit confusing trying to follow Trevor on his various social media outlets about the timing and cadence of communication of the different variables that you’re talking about,” Jeff Osborne, a Cowen & Co. analyst, told executives on an Aug. 4 conference call.

A few new things beyond the Hindenburg report.

 

[brianhn1]

I dabble into aviation quite a bit as my main hobby and thought I’d share.

Did you know that Elon has an instrument rating and a valid pilots license? He got them a couple decades ago and I’m sure that partly explains his interest in aerospace and motivation to start SpaceX. He owned a few different airplanes (look up Piper Meridian, L-39 Russian trainer with SpaceX paint job, Cessna Citation CJ2). Interestingly he is a talented pilot to be able to fly those aircraft as a hobby and had plenty good judgement to put it aside when he became busy with Tesla and SpaceX and let the hired crew fly him around.

When I noticed that Trevor puts “airplane pilot” in his description on Instagram and noticed all his airplanes he purchased on posts in Instagram, I decided to do some digging. Yes he does own the Cessna 182, Kodiak, TBM 930, and very recently a Gulfstream G-V. But he is still only a student pilot and isn’t qualified to fly any of those by himself. So don’t be fooled by him inferring on Twitter and Instagram he flies these aircraft without an actual pilot with him or instructor at all times. His G-V (I think even all Gulfstreams) require two type rated pilots so he would have to sit in the back. Also not sure why his name in the FAA database is spelled Trever...

Elon on the other hand can do a biannual check ride with an instructor during a morning and hop in one of Trevor’s planes (except the G-V) and fly it 100% legally all by himself in the afternoon.

Not trying to just say Elon vs Trevor as who is a better pilot but an experienced pilot never brags as they have been humbled by their mistakes (Pilot license is license to kill yourself) even if they are qualified on paper. Elon said in an interview that he gave up flying because he said he gets too distracted with his thoughts with his companies and that’s bad as a pilot (good judgement of himself). Hopefully this sheds a bit of light about these two personalities.

 

[Tiger]

in a nutshell - last few years.

...

it’s manic.
he’s manic.
cringeworthy every single time he takes the mic or the keyboard

... looked uncomfortable during the ... interview.

...

there has to be something wrong with him
sociopath or something ...
he’s surely a pathological liar that much is clear

If you've watched what's going on in America recently in the white house or between the two major parties, this is all just business as usual Also the saying "America is the best country on earth" is pulled out of someone's arse, a non scientific statement. Hope no snoflake gets offended by this

 

[SebastianR]

Where would you say the main Nikola community hangs out? Reddit? Their sub seems a bit more cautious since this morning. I don’t want to troll or disturb but I would be interested in their way of thinking...

 

[Buckminster]

Where would you say the main Nikola community hangs out?

I've caught most of them talking in quiet tones here previously:

 

[Causalien]

Where would you say the main Nikola community hangs out? Reddit? Their sub seems a bit more cautious since this morning. I don’t want to troll or disturb but I would be interested in their way of thinking...

Yahoo finance discussion seems to have the most ppl. But they are not fanbois.

 

[SebastianR]

Interesting - here the GM take:

Claims of Smoke and Mirrors Levied at Nikola

Asked if the company had validated Nikola’s technology before the deal was signed, GM Senior Communications Manager James Cain told Autoweek, “This alliance isn’t about Nikola technology; it’s about GM technology. GM is supplying our fuel cell (developed with Honda) for the Badger and Nikola’s Class 7 and 8 trucks. For the Badger alone, we are providing our EV truck architecture and Ultium battery technology produced by the GM-LG Chem joint venture. We will engineer, homologate and build the Badger in a GM plant. In exchange, we get shares in Nikola.”

I think this is pretty genius of GM: you get 11% ownership, a seat at the board and the right to EV credits while having someone use, market and sell your technology for free. I can see why GM did this kind of deal.

 

[Stretch2727]

Interesting - here the GM take:

Claims of Smoke and Mirrors Levied at Nikola

I think this is pretty genius of GM: you get 11% ownership, a seat at the board and the right to EV credits while having someone use, market and sell your technology for free. I can see why GM did this kind of deal.

Still does not make sense to me. It's not like Nikola has an existing distribution channel with Sales and Service. At this point, given how Trevor operates I highly doubt Nikola will be successful with the Sales and Service side of the business.

I am beginning think GM did this just to avoid Ford or FCA taking the deal.

 

[ammulder]

I am beginning think GM did this just to avoid Ford or FCA taking the deal.

That's an interesting theory.

Here's another possibility: GM took the deal to drive Nikola into the ground. If GM knows that Nikola has no sales, service, or Hydrogen network, they can take whatever cash or shares Nikola will part with in order to underwrite GM's development of new-energy drivetrains and in-vehicle technology. Then they can allow Nikola to fail to sell/service/fuel the vehicles and collapse. Benefits: GM got paid for new-energy development they otherwise would have had to fund themselves mid-pandemic, and ALSO eliminated a competitor and cast a shadow on EV pickups (or EV companies) as a whole, likely extending the time frame for them to profit off their ICE pickups before that market dwindles.

 

[Stretch2727]

That's an interesting theory.

Here's another possibility: GM took the deal to drive Nikola into the ground. If GM knows that Nikola has no sales, service, or Hydrogen network, they can take whatever cash or shares Nikola will part with in order to underwrite GM's development of new-energy drivetrains and in-vehicle technology. Then they can allow Nikola to fail to sell/service/fuel the vehicles and collapse. Benefits: GM got paid for new-energy development they otherwise would have had to fund themselves mid-pandemic, and ALSO eliminated a competitor and cast a shadow on EV pickups (or EV companies) as a whole, likely extending the time frame for them to profit off their ICE pickups before that market dwindles.

Eliminate a potential competitor maybe. Too purposely further slow EV adoption, I doubt. Also, I understand Nikola does not pay for the tooling/R & D up to the $2B in stock they gave away so GM is not getting paid in cash for this.

If you listen to the last GM earning call it is clear they are under a lot of pressure to respond to Tesla and get some of the valuation that comes with the EV market.

They are in a panic. They know they way behind on EV's and are looking for a quick fix.

They have done nothing since the Bolt (at least in the US). They really thought the Bolt was going to be a serious competitor to the Model 3 if you listen to GM managements comments at the time.

We will see if Nikola and GM are able to make something of this. I highly doubt it.

 

[Krugerrand]

Interesting - here the GM take:

Claims of Smoke and Mirrors Levied at Nikola



I think this is pretty genius of GM: you get 11% ownership, a seat at the board and the right to EV credits while having someone use, market and sell your technology for free. I can see why GM did this kind of deal.

GM will never supply these parts as the vehicle will never be made.

 

[kbM3]

Interesting - here the GM take:

Claims of Smoke and Mirrors Levied at Nikola



I think this is pretty genius of GM: you get 11% ownership, a seat at the board and the right to EV credits while having someone use, market and sell your technology for free. I can see why GM did this kind of deal.

Even if it’s a no lose proposition financially, it will somewhat tarnish GM’s reputation as Nikola is recognized as just as big a fraud as Theranos in the coming weeks.

I.e., I see it as a no win scenario.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

It's who you know in this industry...The person that introduced $NKLA to GM also took $NKLA public via SPAC. Coincidentally, he also used to sit on GM's board of directors. It's one of those 'Trust me...we'll all make out in this deal, and if it doesn't work out, do nont worry, $NKLA execs have an exit plan and GM won't be liable for any $$ being put out.' Who loses here? The retail investors who didn't do their DD, like always.

 

[JRP3]

Elon Musk said he probably wouldn't support Tesla's controversial SolarCity deal if he could go back in time

That was in relation to the difficulties they would face at the same time with the Model 3 production ramp, it wasn't really about acquiring SolarCity in and of itself. In other words if the Model 3 ramp had gone reasonably well Elon would not have had the same opinion. Since you could not have known in advance the problems they would have ramping Model 3 your objection the the SolarCity merger would not have been the same as Elon's reasons today in hindsight.