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All Electric Brands?

Which Manufacturer should be next to announce an all-electrified fleet?

  • Acura/Honda

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alfa Romeo/Fiat

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Audi/Volkswagen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • BMW/Mini

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Genesis/Hyundai/Kia

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Infiniti/Nissan

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lexus/Toyota

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mercedes-Benz/Smart

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Subaru

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Volvo

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

TT97

Active Member
Aug 6, 2017
2,171
2,897
Los Angeles
With GM and Jaguar/Land Rover recently announcing they would convert their offerings to electrified vehicles and Ford announcing they would only continue poisoning people outside of Europe, who should be the next manufacturer to go all in on electrification?

My vote is for Subaru. I like their cars but they have sad engines with even worse transmissions - perfect opportunity to switch to all EVs.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA
Subaru and Mazda are depending on Toyota to engineer their PHEV and BEV powertrains.

They have zero inside technical knowledge of EVs.

IMO they will be absorbed by Toyota before they go all electric.

My guess is the Koreans are next. S Korean government is making a big push out of ICEv with big subsidies for BEVs and to a lesser extent FCEV. Plus Hyundai Chaebol has a deep relationship with Korean battery cell manufactures.
 

TT97

Active Member
Aug 6, 2017
2,171
2,897
Los Angeles
Subaru and Mazda are depending on Toyota to engineer their PHEV and BEV powertrains.

They have zero inside technical knowledge of EVs.

IMO they will be absorbed by Toyota before they go all electric.

My guess is the Koreans are next. S Korean government is making a big push out of ICEv with big subsidies for BEVs and to a lesser extent FCEV. Plus Hyundai Chaebol has a deep relationship with Korean battery cell manufactures.

I did think of that and also hoping Toyota divests itself from Subaru. They are an albatross. (Tesla should buy out Toyota and provide engineering to Subaru :)).

I am surprised Hyundai/Kia hasn't already made the announcement. The new Ioniq 5 looks very promising.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA
Who should be the next to ANNOUNCE? Who cares... has something changed that we actually believe these announcements now?

1)The regulatory environment keeps changing in favor of BEVs.

2) Tesla is growing automotive market share over 50% per year, taking market share from the legacy automakers every year.

3) The Chinese and American startups look to accelerate the trend.


upload_2021-2-19_18-6-39.jpeg
 

alexgr

Member
Aug 13, 2019
527
446
Tulsa
1)The regulatory environment keeps changing in favor of BEVs.

Unfortunately, it is not the same as the regulatory environment changing against ICE vehicles. A tax on the combustion engine size? A tax on CO2 emissions?

2) Tesla is growing automotive market share over 50% per year, taking market share from the legacy automakers every year.

Then in 11 years Tesla will be the only brand left.

3) The Chinese and American startups look to accelerate the trend.

So far, they are successful mainly in making the pockets of naive investors lighter.
 
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Reactions: WarpedOne

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA
Unfortunately, it is not the same as the regulatory environment changing against ICE vehicles. A tax on the combustion engine size? A tax on CO2 emissions?

Fortunately, it is a regulatory environment changing against ICE vehicles.

You can tell when the pigs are squealing. You can see when they are eliminating V12,V8, and large Twin Turbo V6s from the product roadmap.

Even if it is not a 1000% tax on ICEv as some would like.

Psss, America isn't the only market for ICEv on the planet.

Then in 11 years Tesla will be the only brand left.

Never said Tesla's growth would remain 50% plus forever.


So far, they are successful mainly in making the pockets of naive investors lighter.

Pss, America isn't the only market on the planet.

CN.jpg




So far, this is just the beginning in the USA. Not the end.

Venrock, Softbank, Jeff Bezos, Saudi PiF et al are not complete morons.

Risk is high. But so is reward.

You want almost zero risk then invest in Treasury Bills.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA
This is GM's Joint Venture with LG Energy Solutions(formerly LG Chem)

upload_2021-2-19_18-20-1-png.638167


It will produce 30 GWh of Ultium EV battery cells. It has an option to double land purchase and double size of factory.

This isn't being paid for with profits from Chevy Bolt. or Volt. Or Cadillac ELR.

It is being paid for with Silverado,Escalade,Tahoe,and Suburban profits.

That is, effectively, a tax on ICEv to subsidize BEVs.

Every year CARB makes it tougher on ICEv.

Every few years a new US State joins CARB.

Whenever a Democrat gets elected to the White House it makes CAFE tougher on ICEv.

Don't get me started on EU limit of 95 grams of CO2 per KM and progressive fines for violating fleet averages.

And the Chinese recently adopted a law based on CARB.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,401
2,245
SF Bay Area, CA
Subaru and Mazda are depending on Toyota to engineer their PHEV and BEV powertrains.

They have zero inside technical knowledge of EVs.
Is it really zero for both of them?

EVs – Chademo Association points to the Subaru | Stella. I found these on that JDM-only vehicle:
FHI Introduces Subaru STELLA EV Concept
Review 2009 Subaru Stella Plug-In EV, World's First Production EV For Sale By Major Automaker
Who Killed the Electric Car? Subaru To Slay Plug-In Stella EV

There was Mazda | Demio and is the MAZDA: MAZDA MX-30 | MAZDA FIRST ALL-ELECTRIC VEHICLE UNVEILED AT 2019 TOKYO MOTOR SHOW. Seems like it's been on sale in Europe for a little while.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA

The battery pack, BMS etc was developed by EV Common Architecture Spirit Co Ltd, in which Toyota owns 90% and Mazda owns 5%.

Toyota to form electric car technology venture with Mazda
 
  • Informative
Reactions: cwerdna

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,401
2,245
SF Bay Area, CA
The battery pack, BMS etc was developed by EV Common Architecture Spirit Co Ltd, in which Toyota owns 90% and Mazda owns 5%.

Toyota to form electric car technology venture with Mazda
Thank you. TIL about "EV Common Architecture Spirit". Not clear to how much of the MX-30 is based upon the work of the above. I found Mazda, Denso, and Toyota Sign Joint Technology Development Contract for Electric Vehicles on this. Apparently, more players joined this group: Suzuki, Subaru, Hino & Daihatsu join Japanese alliance - electrive.com.

Mazda plans to launch an EV in 2020, plug-in hybrid by 2022 says
Mazda hooked up with Toyota and Denso in 2017 on a joint venture called EV Common Architecture Spirit Co Ltd to develop EV technology. Marumoto said his company is working on an EV architecture with Toyota, but the battery-electric car that debuts next year will ride on a Mazda platform. And it might include a rotary engine used to recharge the battery – Marumoto said a new rotary's "first application will be as a range extender for EVs." The setup could give us the first preview of what Mazda powertrain chief Ichiro Hirose dubbed "XEV," a platform that can act as mild hybrid, series hybrid, or battery-electric vehicle with a rotary range extender.
As for Subaru, well, the Stella BEV debuted in 2009 which is well before this Toyota Subaru agreement. Perhaps Subaru's inside technical knowledge of EVs was pretty low prior to this tie-up but probably not 0.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,332
53,006
City of Champions, USA
Thank you. TIL about "EV Common Architecture Spirit". Not clear to how much of the MX-30 is based upon the work of the above. I found Mazda, Denso, and Toyota Sign Joint Technology Development Contract for Electric Vehicles on this. Apparently, more players joined this group: Suzuki, Subaru, Hino & Daihatsu join Japanese alliance - electrive.com.

Mazda plans to launch an EV in 2020, plug-in hybrid by 2022 says

As for Subaru, well, the Stella BEV debuted in 2009 which is well before this Toyota Subaru agreement. Perhaps Subaru's inside technical knowledge of EVs was pretty low prior to this tie-up but probably not 0.

What Subaru did in 2009 is pretty much irrelevant to today.

If Subaru's EV technology knowledge is not 0 it is approaching 0 and functionally zero.

The chances of Mazda, with a tiny R&D budget, co-developing EV tech with Toyota and other Japanese partners where they are a very junior partner then funding an entirely different EV powertrain is approaching ZERO.

upload_2021-2-21_1-38-26.jpeg
 

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