I totally agree.... I am not prioritizing snow traction and I shouldn't given I have the Nokian R3 studless. The key for me is wear as in the summer here in WA, it can get in the 90s, be wet, etc. In the fall, before putting on the R3, it's normally wet and in the 40s, so, I would want a tire that I can have on as long as possible before putting on the snow tires, which we do get some snow storms here and there. In addition, in the summer, we go to the mountains a lot for hikes, camping, etc. so I would like the tires to be okay at handling dirt, gravel and sharp rocks, etc. So, at this time, the contenders are the DWS06 Plus, PSAS4 and oddly enough, the MXM4, though I know so many people hate this tire! I've have 30k miles on them, and they are pretty good to me for what I've been using them for, except for ice/snow.
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All Season Performance Tires recommendations?
- Thread starter gotoma8
- Start date
Many summer tires are fantastic in the wet, better than any all-seasons. They handle dirt and gravel just fine too, no better or worse than typical road-focused all-seasons like the ones you're looking at. Just make sure to shop in the 300-ish TW range. Anything 200 TW or less is probably a dual use street/track tire, those are the ones that might have the issues you're worried about.
I've used all my summer performance tires in the 40s and upper 30s Fahrenheit without issue, wet and dry. I was driving around in wet and damp roads in the 40s just recently on my summer tires, no problems, plenty of grip. Probably maximum grip is down a little in the 40s but they're completely fine even for fairly brisk driving on twisty 2 lane roads where a big slip could put you off a cliff.
That said, you're right that good, grippy summer performance tires will not last as long as most all-seasons. That is a tradeoff for the extra grip and performance.
If I recall the MXM4 correctly, they are mushy, low grip, soft widewalls. They have all the personality of a Camry. They are quiet and smooth riding and last a long time, so if that's all you want, I guess they're good. Me, I wouldn't want them again if they lasted a million miles.
I assume PSAS4 are way better and more fun in the wet and dry, but probably terrible in the snow, at least that's my experience with other high performance all-seasons. Maybe I'm wrong and they're usable in the snow...maybe...
Conti DWS06 Plus would be my choice of those if you'll actually be using them in the snow. I haven't used them but I have another similar-looking Conti all-season on my Model S and they are a good, well-rounded all-season tire. Wouldn't mistake them for a summer performance tire of course, but they're actually pretty good in the dry and wet, and usable in the snow too (as all-seasons go - no mistaking them for a real snow tire either of course).
I've used all my summer performance tires in the 40s and upper 30s Fahrenheit without issue, wet and dry. I was driving around in wet and damp roads in the 40s just recently on my summer tires, no problems, plenty of grip. Probably maximum grip is down a little in the 40s but they're completely fine even for fairly brisk driving on twisty 2 lane roads where a big slip could put you off a cliff.
That said, you're right that good, grippy summer performance tires will not last as long as most all-seasons. That is a tradeoff for the extra grip and performance.
If I recall the MXM4 correctly, they are mushy, low grip, soft widewalls. They have all the personality of a Camry. They are quiet and smooth riding and last a long time, so if that's all you want, I guess they're good. Me, I wouldn't want them again if they lasted a million miles.
I assume PSAS4 are way better and more fun in the wet and dry, but probably terrible in the snow, at least that's my experience with other high performance all-seasons. Maybe I'm wrong and they're usable in the snow...maybe...
Conti DWS06 Plus would be my choice of those if you'll actually be using them in the snow. I haven't used them but I have another similar-looking Conti all-season on my Model S and they are a good, well-rounded all-season tire. Wouldn't mistake them for a summer performance tire of course, but they're actually pretty good in the dry and wet, and usable in the snow too (as all-seasons go - no mistaking them for a real snow tire either of course).
I've no experience with the Quatrac Pro or any Vredestein tires, can't give advice on them. DWS06 (Plus) would be my pick for a year-round tire for occasional snow use, but quite possible there are better options, that's just based on my limited experience with a couple all-seasons.
When I used to drive in the snow regularly I loved having real snow tires! I was literally chasing and seeking out snowstorms though...not all snow driving situations are as demanding. I've also lived in places where all-seasons would make more sense (either for winter only or as year-round tires). It all depends!
When I used to drive in the snow regularly I loved having real snow tires! I was literally chasing and seeking out snowstorms though...not all snow driving situations are as demanding. I've also lived in places where all-seasons would make more sense (either for winter only or as year-round tires). It all depends!
For what it’s worth:
If you are going to have dedicated winter tires, then your second set would be well deserved as dedicated summers; not worth the hassle of having 2 sets of wheels otherwise. If conditions in the PNW or your situation is not conducive then I’d go with the MPSAS4 as your main wheelset; they are a little more performance oriented in the dry and with heat.
If you want prefer to go with one wheelset as an all-rounder, then the Conti DWS06+ or Vredesteins would be my suggestion. Question you have to ask yourself is how aggressive are you really driving where the tires are really at their limits? Not judging you but it’s a legitimate question.
I gave up on summer/winter tires on my ICE performance vehicles and went with all seasons and that mentality carried over to my M3P for the sake of convenience since I use the vehicles as daily drivers; your situation may be different so it may not apply to you (esp if you plan to use your vehicles off road). In reality, how often are you really doing anything remotely irresponsible on public roads?
I had my wife come pick me up in a blizzard because I was stranded at work with summer tires (totally my fault without checking the weather) with her vehicle sporting previous-generation Conti DWS (non +). She was pulling around all sorts of other stuck vehicles with presumably a variety of all-season tires. That sold me on the Contis and it’s on all our vehicles now when the OEM tires run out. They aren’t dedicated winter or summer tires but they work very well for all our applications save for canyon carving or snow drifting.
Just my 2 cents and personal experience with Michelin summers (MPSS & MPS4) and Conti DWS (standard & +) tires.
If you are going to have dedicated winter tires, then your second set would be well deserved as dedicated summers; not worth the hassle of having 2 sets of wheels otherwise. If conditions in the PNW or your situation is not conducive then I’d go with the MPSAS4 as your main wheelset; they are a little more performance oriented in the dry and with heat.
If you want prefer to go with one wheelset as an all-rounder, then the Conti DWS06+ or Vredesteins would be my suggestion. Question you have to ask yourself is how aggressive are you really driving where the tires are really at their limits? Not judging you but it’s a legitimate question.
I gave up on summer/winter tires on my ICE performance vehicles and went with all seasons and that mentality carried over to my M3P for the sake of convenience since I use the vehicles as daily drivers; your situation may be different so it may not apply to you (esp if you plan to use your vehicles off road). In reality, how often are you really doing anything remotely irresponsible on public roads?
I had my wife come pick me up in a blizzard because I was stranded at work with summer tires (totally my fault without checking the weather) with her vehicle sporting previous-generation Conti DWS (non +). She was pulling around all sorts of other stuck vehicles with presumably a variety of all-season tires. That sold me on the Contis and it’s on all our vehicles now when the OEM tires run out. They aren’t dedicated winter or summer tires but they work very well for all our applications save for canyon carving or snow drifting.
Just my 2 cents and personal experience with Michelin summers (MPSS & MPS4) and Conti DWS (standard & +) tires.
Cool, I wonder if there was a way for you to say that without being an ass? I spoke with a rep at tire rack who specifically stated that tire is doesn’t perform as well in wet conditions as other tires mentioned here. But honestly, I don’t really care about people like you.Lol what
Here. Educate yourself.
Yes, this is the dilemma as well for now. I did get a set of Nokian R3 for winter, used, and planned to put it on my Stock 18s. However, I've been able to deal with the snow so far with the MXM4 OEM tire, so, it's still in the air as having two sets of wheels / tires. I'd prefer a single set for ease, etc. and you are right, if that is the direction, then it would be either the DWS06+ or Quatrac Pro.
I do like to have fun driving my M3, that's the whole point, but honestly I probably wouldn't do the PS4S justice, so, that's kind of out of the list for now...
Thank you for all the input. At first, I was thinking the CC2 to be the end all, but after reading a lot about them, I am not so sure, especially when it comes to efficiency, even though consumer reports rates them 2nd in rolling resistance only to the Quatrac Pro.
I'm sorry my words triggered you. I apologize. I'll try to be more mindful of this with my future posts.
CorneliusRox
Member
Just another point of reference, I picked these up and have been really happy with them:
G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S PLUS - 255/35R20
Going up to 255's over 235's (stock), they seem to grip a little better in warm weather, and they're way better in cold/snow/ice.
If you switch your car profile to the track tire setting, it makes the speedo accurate. Good luck!
G-FORCE COMP-2 A/S PLUS - 255/35R20
Going up to 255's over 235's (stock), they seem to grip a little better in warm weather, and they're way better in cold/snow/ice.
If you switch your car profile to the track tire setting, it makes the speedo accurate. Good luck!
I live in Vancouver BC.
Picked up the 3P in October. Grabbed a set of CrossClimate2's. I'll give you my thoughts on your questions, what I bought specifically, and why. YMMV
Ok comments on your requirements:
1. They work well, I notice good road feel in the dry. VERY good wet weather performance.
2. I was under the impression the CC2's have good rolling resistance? I under-sized mine slightly to ensure I had better rolling resistance performance and snow/ice grip.
3. My understanding is the CC2's have very good wear properties and will handle the extra demands of a powerful car well.
What I bought Specifically:
225/45R18 Michelin CC2. FAST FC04 18x8.
We also spend most of our time in the City, with occasional drives to Calgary through the mountains so I wanted tires that are great in the wet AND snow. I swap my wheels in winter so I wanted the best snow and wet weather grip possible without shredding them in the shoulder season or on dry sanded Calgary roads and I feel the smaller contact patch with the narrower wheel/tires is worth it for that. Will increase wear a bit and decrease my ceiling in the dry but again, these will be only used in the fall-spring so roads will be wet or snow almost all the time. The new CC2's have been redesigned for NA, and have a few features that really stand out for the 3P, and the PNW climate specifically. I also was under the impression the CC2's have low rolling resistance. I don't have data to compare efficiency so I can't help here. But, the smaller contact with narrower tires will help with RR.
The Crossclimate 2's are not very good in the rain, they're PERFECT. Literally freakishly good.
You may be thinking of either the older CrossClimate's, or possibly the European CrossClimate2's - They have different designs. The CC2 for North America has different cuts specifically for rain.
Weird, I have heard the CC2 has great rolling resistance and wear. CC2's have a 100k km warranty. I have them on my 3p and it has freakish grip in the rain.
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For an all season that will get you some performance you just can't go wrong with Pilot 4S A/S.
Correct. There really is no comparison between the CC2 on PSAS4
As good or better than most ultra high performance all season tires, but not nearly as good as a grand touring or dedicated winter tire.
Here is my take from mild Kentucky winters. They are more than capable in all sorts of rain, light or heavy, no problem. They are fine in the freezing cold. I have had experience with Sport Cup 2's in 30 degree weather and that is bad news.
In the snowing conditions and slush they are OK. You still need to use caution like you would anything. We don't really get snow packed street. They clear them pretty quick. However I will say that comparing the 4S A/S to any other All Season they are just as good. However I think these tires really shine as not giving up summer performance.
Bottom line if you live in heavier winter areas (or if I did) I would just get a set of winter tires. I think these are the best compromise but if these aren't good enough for someone in "their" winter then you just need to go to full winter tires. Another ALL SEASON isn't going to perform better.
My opinion of course from owning them. Also as a caveat that experience is on a FRONT WHEEL DRIVE car not an ALL WHEEL drive so experience may vary in a Tesla.
Had the DWS on my last car , an Infiniti G37, the noise was bad... I skipped it for my tesla
Currently on Michelin Pilot Sport Performance All Season 4 with 18inch wheel from tirerack. No complain at all, very solid tires in terms of cornering and efficiency.
In WI, went through last snow storm, not bad at all.
Put on around March/April 2021 and had 30k miles on, tire wear is good.
If you have snow and you are sure you WILL drive in even only 1 winter storm through out the entire tire life span, get CrossClimate 2.
I drive a lot so the price becomes my concern. I'm planning to opt to some cheaper but high ranking tires from the tirerack in the future and do 3-season (SUMITOMO HTR A/S P03 on my OEM 19') and winter tire (GENERAL ALTIMAX ARCTIC 12 on my 18') sets. Still good cost efficiency even these tires only cover me 2 years (estimate about 80k miles in 2 years).
Currently on Michelin Pilot Sport Performance All Season 4 with 18inch wheel from tirerack. No complain at all, very solid tires in terms of cornering and efficiency.
In WI, went through last snow storm, not bad at all.
Put on around March/April 2021 and had 30k miles on, tire wear is good.
If you have snow and you are sure you WILL drive in even only 1 winter storm through out the entire tire life span, get CrossClimate 2.
I drive a lot so the price becomes my concern. I'm planning to opt to some cheaper but high ranking tires from the tirerack in the future and do 3-season (SUMITOMO HTR A/S P03 on my OEM 19') and winter tire (GENERAL ALTIMAX ARCTIC 12 on my 18') sets. Still good cost efficiency even these tires only cover me 2 years (estimate about 80k miles in 2 years).
CarlThompson
Member
Wow, you insult him again in your apology. Classless.
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