I understand what your point is (have an SR so 220 rated miles). My point is that unless someone has recently confirmed through a real world range test or a controlled environment test that what the car is reporting in range on the battery meter is actually correct, we are all just making assumptions. The meter could have changed through a deliberate measure by Tesla to change what 0 means or it could be a software bug.
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All Tesla Models will get Range/Power increase (not just SR+) of 5%
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I understand what your point is (have an SR so 220 rated miles). My point is that unless someone has recently confirmed through a real world range test or a controlled environment test that what the car is reporting in range on the battery meter is actually correct, we are all just making assumptions. The meter could have changed through a deliberate measure by Tesla to change what 0 means or it could be a software bug.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It could have. The meter may be completely scaled differently but that does not seem to be the case (only way to tell would be to examine recharge event energy). But the constants value (referenced to the trip meter) has not changed. Personally I have found the meter to be extremely linear over a very wide range of states of charge. But of course there could be a change in the “offset” from zero. They could have stuffed some extra miles below zero, but honestly they are kind of inaccessible - no one will use them there and the car will give you all sorts of warnings to not go there.
My point is just that you don’t really need to do a drive to determine whether you have lost capacity - the rated miles tell the story, unless your BMS is extremely confused (which does happen of course, but is not the norm). And a couple deep cycles would likely clear that sort of issue - if the rated mile loss persists, that means a loss of (usable) capacity above zero miles.
Yes, Tesla could have changed the scaling of the meter. That is possible, but unlikely. (Hypothetically, Wh on the meter would be “bigger” Wh, so you’d use fewer of them on a given drive all else being equal (efficiency would look, but not actually be, better))
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pdx_m3s
Active Member
ElectricEel
Member
I'm finding this out the hard, my SR is getting 160 miles from 95% to 5%...I am deeply regretting getting the SR.
ElectricEel
Member
How would one go about doing a real test so we can get some hard data. I'm hearing a lot of speculation or defensive guessing. I'd like to use my car as a test , do we have an ODB port of sorts to get some real numbers?
The range quoted will be the EPA rated range, because rules. They put "estimated" if it's not EPA. Either the EPA rules changed, or they changed something.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
You don’t need an OBD2. It would not help (it just gives you kWh capacities which may or may not be real kWh - though obviously they are close). Just look at your starting rated miles, do a long drive, gather your trip meter data, immediately record final rated miles, and calculate the constant (Wh used / rated miles used). It will be 209Wh/rmi.
If you really want to make sure Tesla is not pulling a fast one you have to measure the recharge event energy input for a given number of rated miles added, though...and compare to a prior baseline session. (Answers the question of how real the kWh reported are. After accounting for charging losses.)
I doubt that second step is really needed though. Only way to know for sure though.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah they can’t make this the only change unless they get EPA approval for another method of arriving at EPA range, as I understand it.
A lower Wh/rmi constant would typically mean an actual improvement in efficiency, as you would expect. Could be a change in roll down parameters which are somehow justified which may have little real world impact. Maybe even a new model year tire version coming out from Michelin with slightly lower rolling resistance. Who knows. Would not take much.
Maybe they are equipping it with Hyundai Ioniq tires!
TimothyHW3
Active Member
Unfortunately you will never get "more miles" unless you get lighter on your foot and lower the consumption - this is exactly what Tesla is doing, tweaking the consumption constant...
And to put that in perspective, 10 miles at the rated consumption is about 2kWh more. The batteries on a SR+ are small, taking away from the buffer for example will be bad for the car. Adding 2kWh to the pack, changing assembly lines just for 10 miles? Doubt it. Plus, WLTP in Europe never changed so same car... They could tweak the efficiency on the RWD, but then why doesn't LR get a boost too, it uses the same Rear motor.
Anyways, for anyone with an SR+ - you can easily find out what your available capacity is. Just drive for about 230 miles at the rated consumption straight line in your Energy graph and measure the kWh used. The margin of error doing this is 1%.As simple as that.
Celledral
Member
In the same boat with my SR range. Got the SR to hold me off until model y
ElectricEel
Member
Yea, I'm contemplating getting the model Y now too. Not happy with the range at all.
Going to do a full test tomorrow from 100% to 1%, that should give me the best all around answer.
Going to do a full test tomorrow from 100% to 1%, that should give me the best all around answer.
TimothyHW3
Active Member
Do you have SR+, SR or LR?
Make sure to reset the trip meter and also start as soon as you unplug. This way when you go to "since last charge" you can see how many kWh you used. This will give you definite answer. Also drive to 100-1 in one go, avoid any stops if possible, just small WC breaks are ok.
And of course, try to match your EPA typical rating - the straight line under energy- consumption graph.
Would love to see some screenshots of the consumption graph and also the kWh used tomorrow, that will be very helpful to all.
This was my run tonight 1:1 .. 21 miles even. Started at 214 (90%) and arrived work with 193 miles. I set the speed limit to 65 mph and set the speed chime to go off at 63 mph, so the chime would ring at 63 and I back off. Will keep this going to get used to it for when I make that trip from San Diego to Barstow 181 miles. SR+ (240 miles)
Note: that when you set a speed limit, the Chill Mode will automatically come on and you can’t turn it off. This kinda sucks because you lose out on the regen at the other end. I may have to turn off the Speed limit and just keep the speed warning chime in at 63mph.
Note: that when you set a speed limit, the Chill Mode will automatically come on and you can’t turn it off. This kinda sucks because you lose out on the regen at the other end. I may have to turn off the Speed limit and just keep the speed warning chime in at 63mph.
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scubastevo80
Member
We were contemplating getting the Y but given the RWD only is expected to get 300 miles and my 3 has been getting 11-12 miles less than the advertised 310 one year later (even when constantly driving under the 242wh/mi constant), I’m not sure what we’ll do. I’ll admit the 300 is a big “mental” number for us but I don’t think we’d be willing to spend $50k plus for a car that gets less than 300 given the amount my wife drives coupled with the road trips we take. My hope is that maxwell tech can improve the range at some point in the near future.
TimothyHW3
Active Member
You "lost" 10 miles after how many miles driven?
And "loosing" miles could be temperature in Jersey around this time of year, BMS uncalibrated, doesn't have to be real degradation.
But even if real degradation, that is around 3%, this is totally normal(unless you drove only 5000 miles in a year). You can easily expect 7-9% over the course of a couple of hundred thousand miles. That will still be around 280 miles left which is plenty for most people. Didn't you guys research that degredation based on prior S and X?
Besides that, if you drive so little, why are you range anxious? You can plug anytime you want and if you take a longer trip you basically have to stop each 260 miles for a 25 minute break which most people do anyways.
As for Maxwell, I doubt it. The current technology will be around for at least the next 3-5 years. The only way Tesla can achieve more range is to increase motor efficiency and lower the body weight(which they could do, but that would be 5-10% max) or put more kWh If possible at lower weight, but that isn't happening any time soon - it will also mean a couple of thousand more $ for let's say 50-70 more miles.
I think they might go the more expensive/more kWh route, but I doubt this will happen any time soon, because they have a production line that works and Y coming up. I don't think we will see any drastic change in kWh until 2023 or whereabouts.
Really? Dang I never realized this. Probably not in absolute terms through the entire curve, but it has the capability to regen more at the high end, aka stop faster?
No picture but I will go down and see if I can get that picture. All long distance trips I start at 100%If you intend on starting with your current state of 190rated and drive at rated consumption, that is exactly what is going to happen. But don't let me stop you, that is exactly what I talk about in my post and video
Battery Degradation and Rated Range explained
Just wondering, can you switch to consumption and put on the slider to last 25 or 20 miles, not sure what the option is in miles, but not 10 miles, and post the screenshot here. If you spent 21 miles of 21 rated for the last 20 miles, the consumption avg. dotted line should be below the straight line. Do you have a picture of the consumption screen or can you post one? Thanks!
and that’s 239 - 240 miles
Fred
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