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All Tesla Models will get Range/Power increase (not just SR+) of 5%

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but the total capacity is different for charging and discharging due to a buffer being calculated in full when charging and being hidden below 0% when driving.

The reason that there are two capacities is that to change the state from 0 to 100% one must store enough energy to raise the battery's open circuit voltage from Vempty to Vfull. That requires passing current to the battery whose integral over time is the difference between the full charge (results in Vfull - not full, just the voltage that causes the display to read 100%) and the empty charge (Vempty - not equal to 0 - just the voltage that causes the display to read 0%). But that current has to flow through the battery's internal resistance, R, to get to the place the ions are moved. In doing so it dissipates energy R ∫i(t)i(t)dt. But the energy the car can measure, at the battery terminals, is ∫v(t)i(t)dt. Thus in measuring the "charge capacity", the amount of energy it takes to fully charge the battery, we get a number that is bigger than the actual battery capacity (stored energy) by R ∫i(t)i(t)dt.

Conversely, when we discharge the battery, the current that we withdraw to send to the load flows through that same internal resistance and the measured available energy, ∫v(t)i(t)dt, is less than the energy we had to take from the battery to get it by R ∫i(t)i(t)dt. Thus, the "capacity" of the battery, i.e. the energy it can actually store between empty and full is more than the energy we obtain in discharging it from Vfull to Vempty and less than the energy we must send to it in order to charge it from Vempty to Vfull. To find out what the actual capacity is we would have to evaluate R∫i(t)i(t)dt which means knowing R which is easily obtained as ∂v/∂i i.e. the amount the terminal voltage changes divided by the magnitude of a small current change associated with the voltage change. But that's more trouble than it is worth. It is much easier to just speak of a "charging capacity" and a "discharge capacity". The charging capacity is easily estimated by dividing the amount of energy added to the battery by the amount of state change it produces. E.G. if adding 9.8 kWh increases charge by 10 % the charging capacity is 98 kWh. Similarly if in taking 9.2 kWh from the battery results in a 10% discharge the discharge capacity of the battery is 92 kWh. These are the numbers that my X shows and are, I suppose representative. Note that the magnitude of the difference is similar to the roving buffer that some have come up with to explain this phenomenon.

Now in trying to estimate the discharge capacity there is a twist. Suppose that we assume 10% i^2R loss and drive the car up a hill consuming 1 kWh and taking 1.111 kWh out of storage and then drive back down the other side to the point where the 1.111 kWh is returned which would mean putting delivering 1.235 kWh of regen. The power "consumption" is -124 Wh and the state change 0. Dividing those two numbers does not, obviously, give a reasonable estimate of the discharge capacity. Thus using power consumption during driving is not a good means of estimating discharge capacity unless regen is off and that is why programs that estimate battery health use charging data.

In determining rated range the car would take the discharge capacity multiplied by the SoC (as a fraction) and multiply by the "rated" range. Tesla is somewhat, but not totally, constrained with respect to the rated range number but they have total flexibility in where they set Vfull and Vempty. There is a reserve which is always hidden else it wouldn't be a reserve. That reserve is the amount of energy that can be removed in discharging from Vempty to Vthreshold < Vempty with Vthreshold, also chosen by Tesla according to some criterion such as the onset of battery damage. By making the reserve smaller (setting Vempty closer to Vthreshold) they obviously increase the rated range somewhat at the same time reducing your margin of safety with respect to being stranded.
 
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Any updates on current SR ranges or is the "new" SR battery hardware actually changing?

I like the fact that the price is increasing so my black SR is now even more expensive ($1.5K more+~$2K Fed tax credit) . Hopefully this would help trade in prices? Most used pricing algorithms/people aren't smart enough to figure out Tesla constant trim $ changes. I believe this could be a win for current owners, although the amounts are trivial.
 
What is annoying is that my Medium range (11 months old) now has a range of 247 miles on a full charge (originally 264miles). I'm not sure what Tesla has done with the software, but this drop in range occurred I think when I received software version 2019.28.3.1. Perhaps this "new" SR+ is just the MR with the new software limit of 250 miles?

I wish Tesla would be more upfront regarding what batteries exactly (capacity wise) are in each type of Model 3. This is annoying to me as well because now it seems that my mid-range has the same exact battery as the SR+.
 
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I wish Tesla would be more upfront regarding what batteries exactly (capacity wise) are in each type of Model 3. This is annoying to me as well because now it seems that my mid-range has the same exact battery as the SR+.

When the Model 3 was announced, Tesla said the base model would have a 50 kWh battery. They are not hiding anything. Tesla Bjorn's SR+ range test got 240/250 miles on a real world mixed loop. Bjorn calculated 49 kWh from this test. Tesla is simplifying the model designations from moving away from kWh model designation like in the Model S. Tesla battery sizes are easy to find.
 
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They are hiding a lot. No one except Tesla knows what a 100 kWh battery means and they aren't telling. Lot's of people have surmised what it means but no one's surmise comes up with 100 kW using tests based on their theses. I gave two capacity values measured on the "100kWh" battery in my car. I define precisely what those capacities are but if you have your own definition and specify precisely how you measure it that's an equally valid definition.

If you were one of the armed forces buying something with a 100 kWh battery in it in the contract there would be a very specific definition as to what that meant e.g. it would be specified as the number of kWh that can be withdrawn from it to change the open circuit voltage between specified levels and at what temperature and discharge rate the measurements that determined whether the battery met specs or not would be made. There would be a verification section in the spec that detailed the measurement procedure to be used.

Tesla isn't dealing with the military here. They are dealing with people that wouldn't know how to interpret all that info and so they say it's a 100 kWh battery which tells us that we ought to be able to put about 100 kWh into it or take about 100 kWh out of it which is more than we can put into or take out of a 90 kWh battery.
 
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They are hiding a lot. No one except Tesla knows what a 100 kWh battery means and they aren't telling. Lot's of people have surmised what it means but no one's surmise comes up with 100 kW using tests based on their theses. I gave two capacity values measured on the "100kWh" battery in my car. I define precisely what those capacities are but if you have your own definition and specify precisely how you measure it that's an equally valid definition.

If you were one of the armed forces buying something with a 100 kWh battery in it in the contract there would be a very specific definition as to what that meant e.g. it would be specified as the number of kWh that can be withdrawn from it to change the open circuit voltage between specified levels and at what temperature and discharge rate the measurements that determined whether the battery met specs or not would be made. There would be a verification section in the spec that detailed the measurement procedure to be used.

Tesla isn't dealing with the military here. They are dealing with people that wouldn't know how to interpret all that info and so they say it's a 100 kWh battery which tells us that we ought to be able to put about 100 kWh into it or take about 100 kWh out of it which is more than we can put into or take out of a 90 kWh battery.

They have a right to protecting proprietary technology. Full range tests and simple calculations says everything compared to armchair and theoretical assumptions. If Tesla has a buffer what is the issue here? I'll go with Bjorn Nylands explanation and he is a lot more practical, realistic and logical in his testing. Tesla is still at the stage where they need to hold a technical lead over the competition. Hiding to be deceitful and protecting their technology are two different issues. What is 99.99% of the population going to do with the knowledge their BEV has a 50 or 76 kWh battery size anyways? Owners just need to know how far their car will go and how to charge it.
 
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The Model 3 SR/+ is not a 200 mile car in real world driving. Saying 250 vs 240 means nothing.
My car is reporting 203 Wh/mile over 9k+ miles and that includes three round trips from DC to Boston totalling roughly 4k of those miles. On the Boston roundtrip I use more energy as I’m driving speed of traffic and carrying extra luggage weight (219 Wh/mi on my September trip up). I do drive spiritedly normally from time to time and as such I actually drive my fun weekend supercharged v8 far less.
I can (currently) easily exceed rated Wh/mi and often run 185-190 on my mixed highway and trafficky commute round trip 50 miles. I’ll be interested to see how the cold will begin to impact my energy usage.

I am annoyed that the car started with 216 estimated miles at 90% and now it’s 203 but that’s 5.5% and seems mostly in line with others have seen. And of course people say don’t use that as a metric and use % and I obviously exceed the rates Wh/mi so I’ll have more range than that.
 

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I wish Tesla would be more upfront regarding what batteries exactly (capacity wise) are in each type of Model 3. This is annoying to me as well because now it seems that my mid-range has the same exact battery as the SR+.

SR are software locked SR+. But MR's different curb weight. Per other threads @GigaGrunt confirmed that, but not sure what these new versions will be?

I think software locks are great, they can be upgraded or seen as top battery protection. I do agree about batteries exactly (capacity wise) like they did with S
 
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Guys i am new in the forum here and about to purchase a model 3. Please please help me decide buying model 3 SR+ from existing inventory and paying 38990 is a netter decision OR buying for 500 more and getting 10 miles more is.

Are we getting a different battery pack?

OR wait untill more details become available. Tesla would never say they are providing better battery pack when they have many SR+ available inventory.

what does wait time of 10 weeks tell you?
 
Are we getting a different battery pack?

OR wait untill more details become available. Tesla would never say they are providing better battery pack when they have many SR+ available inventory.

what does wait time of 10 weeks tell you?

Most likely explanation would be that the extra range is just a software tweak, and the 10 week wait time is just them sending boats full of cars to foreign markets. The EPA filing for the SR+ measured at something like 246 miles and it was voluntarily lowered to 240 for marketing; so a relatively small change in software could result in 4 more miles of range.

I doubt there will be a new battery pack, but there is some speculation on the investor forum right now that Tesla could be incorporating some new lighter cast parts into the Model 3 (their recent crash test video showed them retesting some rear crash tests, which could point to structural changes). If you don't need to buy immediately, it could be worth $500 to wait and see, but I wouldn't get your hopes up for something revolutionary.

EDIT: Here's the investor thread link: Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019 Investors' Roundtable

EDIT2: Also worth considering the possibility of missing out on the $1,875 tax credit should your order get pushed past December 31st.
 
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They have a right to protecting proprietary technology.
They absolutely do. The question is whether the buyer is willing to accept vague or incomplete specs. Clearly we are. But I think the bigger issue is
What is 99.99% of the population going to do with the knowledge their BEV has a 50 or 76 kWh battery size anyways?

If Tesla has a buffer what is the issue here?
The issue is that not everyone seems to understand what the buffer is. There are actually two. One above the maximum charge and one below the minimum. The first protects the battery from overcharging and the second protects the driver from running out of juice if he has been injudicious in his driving/charging. There is actually a third which protects the battery from discharge damage.
 
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Not complaining... but the 240 number means nothing... Can you actually get 240 miles out of it? I can't, and I'm a lite-foot who wants to hyper mile when possible.

Just back from beautiful fall road trip, 1100 miles, averaged 252 Wh/mi, my lifetime is 241 which obv includes a lot of slow-speed local driving. The car is 'rated' at 225 IIRC, so in real world driving, you're off by 12% or a 214 max from 100%, from 90 to 10, you're looking at 171 best-case effective range in an SR+.

Adding 10 miles to this nets you 7 miles. Neat and cool and I'd love to say my Model 3 gets 250 miles, but it gets 171, or maybe 178...

FTR, I was traveling from NJ to a hotel with charger in DC - 206 highway miles. Topped it up to 100% early in the AM and set out with a full battery. From the minute I pulled onto the highway a few miles from my house, it was telling me I had to go 65 MPH to make it, then 60, then 55...

Not upset, I knew it would be a stretch, but it would have been so nice to pull into the hotel with 3%... Ended up taking a quick hit along the route towards the end of the trip. The Model 3 SR/+ is not a 200 mile car in real world driving. Saying 250 vs 240 means nothing.
I feel the same. 240 mi is very unlikely. My 4 month old SR+ is saying 228 mi at 100%. Sure would like 250 but I think this is just EPA number games and not better efficiency for us current owners.
 
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I feel the same. 240 mi is very unlikely. My 4 month old SR+ is saying 228 mi at 100%. Sure would like 250 but I think this is just EPA number games and not better efficiency for us current owners.

So is your SR+ saying 367 kms estimated range or rated range ? My 7.5 month old SR+ displays the rated range of 385 km at 100% however my estimated range is always lower because it's based on the my past driving style over distance. I'm reading this from the Stats app. I made several runs to Hope this summer in very nice weather driving at moderate speeds (110 km/h) and I was indeed trending 360-380 km's range. If my SR+ was only giving me a rated range of 367km, I would recalibrate the BMS and if the results are the same I might be tempted to contact Tesla service.
 
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My SR+ showed 367kms at 100% (charged to full for a trip over the weekend) where it had previously showed 386kms during the warmer months (between July - Sept).

The last 3 weeks have been fluctuating between 0 and 15 degrees Celsius which I just assumed it's adjusting based on weather conditions as per the expected cold weather range loss.
 
WLTP rating never changed and it is highly, highly, very highly unlikely that Tesla just decided to add a kWh or two extra and change the production line, they just decided to adjust the EPA rating displayed to you. It is just marketing as someone mentioned, the battery size/gas tank is the same. Which means that if you drive at the EPA rated consumption you will still get only 225-230 miles out of 0-100

Have to be a little careful about this. It may be too early to say there is no WLTP change. We'll see.

I looked at the EPA website, and there are no new submissions to the EPA regarding SR+ testing. So nothing there yet.

However, my understanding is that Tesla is not allowed to simply claim 250 miles without an actual EPA test to support that range - it's not something they can claim with just marketing; they have to have a test to support it. They originally got 247 miles for the SR+, so as mentioned above a small efficiency tweak might easily get them to 250 miles. A drivetrain efficiency improvement would help everywhere, including on the highway (though you would still not get the rated range on the highway of course, and as usual the penalty for the SR/SR+ at highway speeds on a % basis is worse than it is for the AWD because the SR/SR+ is so much more efficient baseline (so highway aero losses result in a higher % loss of range for the SR/SR+)).

It's also possible they unlocked some additional reserve at the bottom of the battery - but they'd have to show a test result with this.

So we will see what happens. It's possible Tesla has already completed another EPA test for the SR+ and has not submitted the data.

Again, if the battery is the same, and the new rated range is 250 miles, we should expect to see a change (reduction) in the constants to 200Wh/rmi (discharge) and 210Wh/rmi (charging). And I'd expect a new EPA test result at some point. (It could also be just a small change to 207Wh/rmi / 216Wh/rmi, if the old consumption constants were actually based on the 247-mile EPA-achieved range (with a larger buffer than typical since only 240 of the miles were shown) - it's hard to guess without having readings of the buffer size, and sort of dead reckoning with all the data from the other car variants.)

Or, if they just "unlock" the bottom (or top?) of the battery, with no efficiency change, there would be no change in the constants. That would just mean more capacity with no change in efficiency, so no change in constants.

So measuring the constants is something people should do, once this car is delivered!
 
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When the LR RWD received the range boost from 310 to 325 via software, everyone was elated. When they do the same for the base model SR+ there is so much pessimism and negativity. Personally if this turns out to be reality, I don't care how they do it, I'm pretty happy. V10 was an early Xmas present and now potentially more range ? Oh hell yeah Tesla! :D
 
When the Model 3 was announced, Tesla said the base model would have a 50 kWh battery. They are not hiding anything. Tesla Bjorn's SR+ range test got 240/250 miles on a real world mixed loop. Bjorn calculated 49 kWh from this test. Tesla is simplifying the model designations from moving away from kWh model designation like in the Model S. Tesla battery sizes are easy to find.
Then what kind of battery does the mid-range have exactly?
 
Then what kind of battery does the mid-range have exactly?

It has a battery with 54.5kWh of capacity, according to the EPA submission. This is the test article with 4000 miles on it, driven until the wheels stop turning. My understanding is that the EPA rules require that the cars distributed to consumers be representative of those test articles, so they can't limit the number of kWh available beyond what was done in the original test. The kWh have to be available (presumably within some small tolerance) for an equivalent mileage vehicle. (But of course degradation is allowed.)

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46968&flag=1 (page 6)

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=46584&flag=1 (page 25)

Based on this, it doesn't look to me like they would have the leeway to make the same battery work with 250 miles of range, unless they improve the drivetrain efficiency (through software or otherwise). Unless they were super conservative with their initial cutoff voltage for the SR EPA test article. But that seems unlikely since it's 31p96s for the SR+/SR vs. the 46p96s LR, and the EPA discharges are 54.5kWh/79.2kWh. So if anything the discharge for the 31p96s seems deeper already. (54.5/79.2 = 0.69 while 31/46 = 0.67)
 
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Any updates on current SR ranges or is the "new" SR battery hardware actually changing?

I like the fact that the price is increasing so my black SR is now even more expensive ($1.5K more+~$2K Fed tax credit) . Hopefully this would help trade in prices? Most used pricing algorithms/people aren't smart enough to figure out Tesla constant trim $ changes. I believe this could be a win for current owners, although the amounts are trivial.

Color counts less than 0 for trade-in/resale valuation.