Almost abandoned my Model S for an ICE rental last night...

[wk057]

Kinda seems like all you needed was a Supercharger. So, I assume we're talking a couple years as being the measure of a "long way away"...?

There is one planned supercharger location (that doesn't yet exist, no permits found, etc) that would have helped for sure. It would have still been out of the way, plus charging time, to the tune of 45 minutes or more, however, but probably would have been less stressful.

There is still no planned supercharger even on the 2016 map anywhere between Winston Salem and Hickory.

Even looking ahead "a couple years" doesn't solve the issue because ideally I would have needed a supercharger near Winston Salem, a bit to the west, to make the trip nearly as painless as it would have been in an ICE... ignoring that I would still need to be able to leave home with sufficient charge in the first place, which may not be possible. A supercharger near home along the route would help with that (none planned) but still adds significant time to the trip.

 

[dsm363]

I'd imagine this type of emergency trip is a rare event. If keeping an old ICE around for less than 1% of trips makes things easier and is affordable that is an option as your said. Otherwise renting when needed works and is likely cheaper. You're not paying Insurance and maintenance on a car you almost never use.

 

[wk057]

I'd imagine this type of emergency trip is a rare event. If keeping an old ICE around for less than 1% of trips makes things easier and is affordable that is an option as your said. Otherwise renting when needed works and is likely cheaper. You're not paying Insurance and maintenance on a car you almost never use.

Well, if I *do* get an ICE for the <1% that I would need an ICE's range and refueling options... I'd get something fun that would give me an excuse to drive it.

I've been tempted to buy a used Volt and modify it to hell and back. Given that the Volt inverter has been hacked I'm pretty confident I could replace basically everything about the car's controls and make a longer range EV mode (perhaps extended using Tesla battery modules) and a more efficient ICE mode (the way the Volt uses the ICE is completely stupid and inefficient given that it could simply operate it at the peak efficiency point using the battery as a buffer). Would be a fun project, with the added benefit of having another EV along with a long range vehicle.

Other options would be more exotic. A McLaren 650S comes to mind...

 

[William13]

I am glad that my wife still has an ICE SUV. There are many trips that I take that are not able to be done with my Model S in a timely fashion. Things continue to improve but I still need at least four times the current national number of superchargers and public destination chargers to go anywhere anytime. I know planning will always be more important than during the ICE AGES.

 

[bonnie]

While you may not think it's important, it most certainly is to the person needing to make the trip.

Imagine if were someone who had just finished a 100 mile daily commute, got home, and found out I needed to make even a 200 mile round trip?

Model S Owner: Well, the Model S is perfectly capable of the 100 mile commute. If I charge to 90% daily, that 100 mile round trip commute will get me home with ~130 miles if I'm lucky. Even if I have a HPWC @ 20kW I'm delayed at least a couple of hours while the car gets enough range. If the trip is 300 miles then I'm delayed a couple of hours, plus need to figure out where I'm charging if it's even possible for the trip, etc etc. Likely just screwed and have to find an ICE to use.

Leaf Owner: Screwed. They had to charge at work to make it home in the first place.

ICE Owner: Get in car and go. Worst case scenario within 5 miles of leaving home in the direction of the destination there will be a gas station. Spend 5 minutes for a fill and likely have 300+ miles of range.

I'm not against EVs, but anyone who tries to write situations like this off as not an actual problem is just in denial.

I could come up with a scenario that required a pickup truck or a true 4wd vehicle for an emergency situation, and using this logic, declare the world MUST all have 4wd vehicles. There are situations where I will need to rent an ICE. I also suspect there will be times where I need to rent a truck for hauling something larger than I normally do.

Let's not go overboard with the whole 'the sky is falling' scenario because you had an event that required another type of vehicle.

I could *never* live in California. Honestly, I don't even really like visiting there.

Everything is too expensive, too many people, packed in too tiny of areas. Driving anywhere near LA, SF, etc is stressful and annoying. I'll take my EV desert over CA any day. Reminds me of NJ, only worse, and I made it a point to get out of there.

It's a pretty big and diverse state. Sorry you missed so much of it.

 

[wk057]

I could come up with a scenario that required a pickup truck or a true 4wd vehicle for an emergency situation, and using this logic, declare the world MUST all have 4wd vehicles. There are situations where I will need to rent an ICE. I also suspect there will be times where I need to rent a truck for hauling something larger than I normally do.

Let's not go overboard with the whole 'the sky is falling' scenario because you had an event that required another type of vehicle.




It's a pretty big and diverse state. Sorry you missed so much of it.

Renting a truck or a 4WD vehicle for a purpose is one thing. I never buy vehicles, ICE or EV that fit the bill there, and neither do most people.

If I have an ICE vehicle I never have to rent an EV in order to get somewhere from home and would never even need to consider such a thing. I think that comparison is pointless since it doesn't work both ways.

Having a vehicle and not being able to get to where you need to go and back in a reasonable time is another issue entirely considering this is kind of the main purpose of having a vehicle in most cases (A to B).

I'm not saying the sky is falling. Far from it. Just pointing out that we have a long road ahead and it's not as smooth as many think.

As for CA, I'm sure there are nicer places then the places I've visited, just like there are nicer places in NJ and NY and VA, etc. I haven't found anywhere in NC that I wouldn't live, really. Even the "cities" are pretty nice.

 

[Merrill]

How about a Model S and a Model X with a hitch to tow a trailer. Both are charged and ready to go.

 

[hiroshiy]

Hi, @wk057, glad you made it. Great decision you came up with using P85 with almost full battery. And it consumes less energy.

EV adoption is a bit closer though I think. Japan is a small country yet with some mountains and hills (no desert). Many less populated areas. However, the government kept spending money over charging infrastructure for a few years up until now, many Nissan and Mitsubishi dealers have 24h available CHAdeMO chargers all around Japan. Some powerful as 44kW/50kW, some 20kW/25kW. I can go literally anywhere in this country, even at night, with my Model S.

It's going to be a little bit more time, but if the government starts pushing public L3 charging infrastructure, EVs will be more viable.

 

[Andyw2100]

It's easy to dismiss wk057's situation as rare and a "one-off", but I think doing that is missing the big picture.

The point is that for a lot of people who don't yet have any experience with EVs, the concern about a situation like the one wk057 found himself in, or just the general concern about finding places to charge is still a huge factor in their reluctance to seriously consider EVs. To see evidence of this, just watch the recent "Consumer Reports" Talking Cars video. The biggest EV proponent of the bunch says stuff about how you wouldn't take the Model S on a long trip, and how you'd need another car, etc., etc.

Until people never have to think about charging, the same way people driving ICE vehicles now really don't have to think about refueling, this will remain an issue. It's an issue that all of us have accepted, and for many it's really not much of an issue at all. That doesn't mean it's not an issue for others, and more importantly, that people don't perceive it as being a problem, whether or not it really would, in fact, be a problem for them.

 

[Chuq]

Whenever people talk about EVs being ready for the mainstream, I always say that almost all two-car family households are perfectly capable of replacing one of their cars with an EV (even a small one such as a Leaf), even in areas with not a single public charge location. It would be very unusual for both cars in a two car household to need to travel more than 150km in a day.

This isn't allowing for the longer range of a Tesla, which is at a price which doesn't apply to the "typical two-car family". Depending on where you live and the density of charging locations, you could possibly go Tesla+Leaf

Of course examples such as this thread serve as those "edge cases"...

 

[wk057]

Hi, @wk057, glad you made it. Great decision you came up with using P85 with almost full battery. And it consumes less energy.

EV adoption is a bit closer though I think. Japan is a small country yet with some mountains and hills (no desert). Many less populated areas. However, the government kept spending money over charging infrastructure for a few years up until now, many Nissan and Mitsubishi dealers have 24h available CHAdeMO chargers all around Japan. Some powerful as 44kW/50kW, some 20kW/25kW. I can go literally anywhere in this country, even at night, with my Model S.

It's going to be a little bit more time, but if the government starts pushing public L3 charging infrastructure, EVs will be more viable.

Yeah, I think Japan is the poster child for EVs

No offense, but I think it will be much simpler to push EV adoption in Japan vs North America just due to the size/area difference.

It's just like an EV in Hawaii. You could drivr around any of the islands multiple times on a charge in a Model S. EVs are a no brainer there IMO, even with no L3 chargers. I suspect Japan is similar in this regard.

 

[ecarfan]

@wk057, the situation you described was obviously a difficult one for Model S to deal with given that no Superchargers were available to you. I'm glad it worked out okay for you.
That said, for the majority of car owners I believe such situations are rare, and I would even go so far as to say very rare. In my 45 years of driving I personally have never encountered a situation where I unexpectedly and urgently needed to make a car trip over 200 miles. Obviously such situations do occur, but I suspect it is safe to say that for most people they are extremely uncommon. Notice I say "for most people", and by that I mean the majority.
Over the next decade there is no question that battery power density will greatly improve by a factor of two or more. This will mean that 300+ mile range EVs will be widely available at affordable prices, and the concern you raise will be addressed.

 

[ohmman]

Bonnie stole my thunder on two points, but I'm going to post to expand a bit instead of a simple +1.

Before my points, glad you made it and I know your posts well enough from this forum so I take your complaints seriously.

First point: I have a small amount of acreage north of SF and find myself wishing I had a pickup truck about 14 days out of the year. For me, that's the borderline between "I almost bought one" and "but I didn't." I rent them when I need them. It's cheaper and I don't have to deal with upkeep. I certainly don't think this precludes me from using my MS for every other trip I take, nor does it make us a long way from mass adoption. Mass adoption implies normal driving. My MS does that better than any ICE I've owned.

Second point: Your comments about California also imply that you've only visited areas that didn't suit you. The state is enormous, and as a percentage of geographic space, the traffic is very isolated. I grew up on the east coast near NJ, with plenty of time spent in NC (Outer Banks among other places), so I have plenty of data for comparison. I have to think you missed the good stuff. California is huge and diverse and has a lot to offer.

On the plus side, I'm hopeful you get the Volt, go to town on it, and keep us all updated here! I truly enjoy reading about your projects.

 

[ecarfan]

It's just like an EV in Hawaii. You could drivr around any of the islands multiple times on a charge in a Model S. EVs are a no brainer there IMO, even with no L3 chargers. I suspect Japan is similar in this regard.

A quick evaluation of the geography and road networks of the major Japanese islands and the big island of Hawaii shows that your statement quoted above is clearly not correct.
Batteries will improve substantially over the next decade and charging networks will expand dramatically. Widespread EV adoption is highly likely.
I have two Tesla's and no ICEs. So far it's working fine for me, and I have an irregular and unpredictable work schedule where I sometimes drive over 140 miles on short notice (but never over 250 miles). Of course I live in the SF Bay Area where there are numerous Superchargers. But it won't be too long before North Carolina is well served also.

 

[wk057]

A quick evaluation of the geography and road networks of the major Japanese islands and the big island of Hawaii shows that your statement quoted above is clearly not correct.
Batteries will improve substantially over the next decade and charging networks will expand dramatically. Widespread EV adoption is highly likely.
I have two Tesla's and no ICEs. So far it's working fine for me, and I have an irregular and unpredictable work schedule where I sometimes drive over 140 miles on short notice (but never over 250 miles). Of course I live in the SF Bay Area where there are numerous Superchargers. But it won't be too long before North Carolina is well served also.

Well, I guess the big island is the only exception. Still there is no round trip from anywhere to anywhere else not possible on a full charge I believe.

I also own two Teslas and no ICEs. I agree and believe that the future of terrestrial transportation is electric, and there will be a substantial shift in this direction in my lifetime. But I'm not going to kid myself and think that anything dramatic will happen in the next decade. Would be nice, but I doubt it.

 

[ecarfan]

Let's be sure and check back with each other in 2025 to see how things have developed [emoji6]

 

[jcaspar]

P85 to the rescue!

There are definitely times I need an ICE and for that I have an extended cab Chevy 4x4. Covers all the bases and likely produces less CO2 per year than the natural gas burnt to charge my Tesla! (as I rarely drive the truck).

And regarding CA, there are some really nice places if you stay away from the Bay Area and LA....

 

[abasile]

If it's truly an emergency, could Uber be another option? I don't know what their rates are for long distance drives. But even if they are very expensive, perhaps that may be OK for rare situations. In our case, since our family has multiple drivers, when we buy a Tesla we will also keep a Prius and a LEAF.

I can understand why you would want to avoid living in a concrete jungle. I really enjoy our home environment, near Southern California's mountain lakes and ski resorts.

 

[Cyclone]

Fyi, there's an 80 amp HPWC available to all in downtown Winston off 4th and Broad. I was there a few weeks ago at 10 pm grabbing a charge. It's on PlugShare.
http://Professional Offices http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/38248

 

[kf93]

I grew up just outside of W-S and my parents still live there so this was an interesting thread to read. I think a supercharger somewhere around Davie County or in Statesville will do well for people going E-W on 40 or N-S on 77.

Hopefully you get more coverage soon. Would love to drive my future S across country and visit the parents but i would be charging off the 110 in the garage at that point probably.