Almost time to choose tariff. Octopus reccomendations?

[exlatccatsa]

My Octopus Go tariff is up at the end of May. I'm trying to make sense of the options available. Looking for some comments and reccomendations.
As I see it, my options are Go, Go Faster and intelligent Octopus.
My setup.
5.6kWh solar SSE facing receiving last export FIT. 1.2kWh NNW facing just charging batteries.
Batteries at the moment 16.5kWh ( useable) Pylontechs but that will increase to 22kWh useabke in the summer.
I have a 9.5kW Samsung HP and 20 solar tubes which do about 50 to 60% of the water heating. Also the M3.
My problem at the moment with the Go tariff is that it's only 4 hours and I need 4.5 hrs to charge the 16.5 kWh of the batteries fully. It works most of the time with the solar but 1 dull day and I need to charge overnight. In the winter, I can see I will be charging batteries overnight from late October to March. With 16kWh the batteries are depleted by 1800ish in mid winter hence the need for 2 more batteries and a longer charging period. So the choice is really Go Faster or Intelligent Octopus?
How easy is it to charge the batteries with a variable time slot you get with IO?
I've been trying to put together a case, to myself for the 2 extra batteries using past usage, solar, dual rates etc and its doing my head in, to the point I'm going to start again with a new excel sheet.. there are so many parameters to include and so many to exclude. Does anyone have a similar setup? I'd be interested in hearing how you justified the expense/ return to yourself. I have a gut feeling that it will work out cheaper after 7 years or so.. I'd just like to prove it to myself. I look forward to seeing the responses.

 

[Mrklaw]

you don't have your SSE hooked up to the batteries at all? You can still do that without affecting FIT with an AC coupled inverter. Big array so even in winter that should help a bit if you aren't reliant on the N array. (also curious if you find the N array useful as I might consider the same)

The worry with the batteries and IO is they may also discharge in off peak if they don't realise its off peak. If it was just about charging, the simplest is just keep them to the 6 hours which should be enough.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I'd be interested in hearing how you justified the expense/ return to yourself

I'm working on the basis of investing savings, rather than borrowing money.

#1 I can invest at X% (whatever that is at the time, likely that it will be more when inflation is higher) and then spend that money on Electricity.

#2 Or I can invest in PV, and save X% off by electricity bill.

The difference for me, I've probably overlooked the bleeding obvious!, is that #2 is tax free and index-linked. It will always be X% off my electricity bill, regardless of the price of electricity.

Whereas for #1 to be index-linked I've got to re-invest some of the interest to buy more capital. Or buy an investment that is index linked I suppose ...

I expect there is graph comparison of the two assuming Inflation of X% showing how PV reduction of electricity price beats a regular investment. At least that's what I'm hoping it will show!

As I head further into retirement that guaranteed supply / cost-reduction will help to maintain my lifestyle.

I'm in my forever-home (as far as I know!) so different for anyone not expecting to stay longer term.

 

[exlatccatsa]

you don't have your SSE hooked up to the batteries at all? You can still do that without affecting FIT with an AC coupled inverter. Big array so even in winter that should help a bit if you aren't reliant on the N array. (also curious if you find the N array useful as I might consider the same)

The worry with the batteries and IO is they may also discharge in off peak if they don't realise its off peak. If it was just about charging, the simplest is just keep them to the 6 hours which should be enough.

Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. SSE are fully connected.. just NNW that have the restriction of batteries only. The NNW only really work April to August after 1600 but respond fairly well in partly cloudy days in the mornings as there's more reflected sunlight.

 

[exlatccatsa]

I'm working on the basis of investing savings, rather than borrowing money.

#1 I can invest at X% (whatever that is at the time, likely that it will be more when inflation is higher) and then spend that money on Electricity.

#2 Or I can invest in PV, and save X% off by electricity bill.

The difference for me, I've probably overlooked the bleeding obvious!, is that #2 is tax free and index-linked. It will always be X% off my electricity bill, regardless of the price of electricity.

Whereas for #1 to be index-linked I've got to re-invest some of the interest to buy more capital. Or buy an investment that is index linked I suppose ...

I expect there is graph comparison of the two assuming Inflation of X% showing how PV reduction of electricity price beats a regular investment. At least that's what I'm hoping it will show!

As I head further into retirement that guaranteed supply / cost-reduction will help to maintain my lifestyle.

I'm in my forever-home (as far as I know!) so different for anyone not expecting to stay longer term.

Are the new batteries tax free? I had heard that it was only as part of a new installation? I'll have to investigate further.. that may make it worthwhile adding more NNW panels. It will not be borrowing to pay for the new batteries that would elongate payback time.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The worry with the batteries and IO is they may also discharge in off peak if they don't realise its off peak

My Battery is 2x PowerWall, but I expect my problem is the similar. I'm thinking of using API to exert some control. I'm expecting my control to be along the lines of:

Weather forecast for tomorrow's sunshine. make a prediction of kWh / hour from Dawn to Dusk.

Given that, how fast will the PowerWalls fill up? On a full-sun day they start at 10% @ 08:30 and are 100% full by 12:30 - 22.5% per hour.

I then need to charge the car if I can. I have Zappi, but I think I may be better off to start charging the car (i.e. not dependent on Zappi) once the PowerWalls are at 95%, and set the AMPs according to what I reckon will allow the PowerWalls to just creep up those last few percent. This will allow me to charge car at a constant guesstimated-rate, even allowing the PowerWall to discharge a few percent, and then stop charging with enough time for the last of the sun to fill the battery. (I may be maligning Zappi, assuming that there is some reaction time to see Export happening, and a cloud going over, and perhaps also some inefficiency / reaction time if the AMPs are fiddled with frequently. (Zappi may not do that at all)

On best-sun days I have to charge car at at least 20 AMPs (32AMP charging and best-sun uses about 7% PowerWall per hour)

Are the new batteries tax free?

I think the issue is whether the Labour is more than X% of the job. That is much more difficult to achieve with very high proportion of capital cost items. Dunno if that was eased in the budged? Assuming not then there are exclusions for over 65s and if on benefits of one sort or another.

 

[WannabeOwner]

P.S. I can also fiddle with the Reserve. I have 10% Reserve, in case of powercuts, but I'm happy to reduce that to 5%, maybe less, when Off Peak finishes to release some battery until PV starts recharging the battery.

 

[exlatccatsa]

I am juggling power on sunny days at the moment .. using the heat pump, house appliances and car to keep the batteries from charging fully.. as I have to leave a buffer in the batteries for the NNW to
Charge to in the afternoons otherwise it gets wasted. I should have said that I have no time to be charged for anymore.. I'm retired and when I'm at home I just use what free energy is available to charge the car. Including the hour long shop at Tesco if necessary. The fly in the ointment, for the moment is my daughters Hyundai Ionic 5 which will only charge at 8kW so if she's working from home on a blue sky day it costs 2 to 300w and a depleted house battery ( 4kW from solar and 4kW from the Pylontechs, max output for both) with the house using the 2 or 300 Watts. There is no way to regulate it as it takes 8kW or nothing.

 

[Mr Miserable]

I think there was a recent thread on this and the advice was to sit tight - Octopus have not been particularly proactive in removing folk from this brilliant tariff. Enjoy the Go tariff for as long as possible is my advice.

 

[exlatccatsa]

Thanks @Mr Miserable, I was planning on doing that, but I had read it was only affecting Go Faster customers recently.
I just need a backup plan and which to go for is giving me the headache

 

[exlatccatsa]

I asked Ohme if their chargers are OCPP ready. Their reply below.
"We are looking to get integrated with Octopus Intelligence, however I can't confirm a timeframe as to when this will be live yet."

And
"We will update everyone on our website and social media channels"

So it looks like I'm stuck with Go for a while yet.

 

[Mrklaw]

I thought you only need a car or a charger that is compatible? My zappi isn’t being controlled it’s the Tesla that is calling for a charge

 

[browellm]

How easy is it to charge the batteries with a variable time slot you get with IO?

Charging your home batteries is easy on IO. Just set a fixed schedule from 23:30-05:30. Once they're full your house will just consume in the off peak

The worry with the batteries and IO is they may also discharge in off peak if they don't realise its off peak.

If you want to take things to the next level with this then it is possible. I'm using a python script in Home Assistant which calls my IO API and stops the house battery from discharging during the extra slots allocated outside the fixed window. Not my work, but I got lots of help with it on the Octopus forums. It's brilliant.

 

[browellm]

I asked Ohme if their chargers are OCPP ready. Their reply below.
"We are looking to get integrated with Octopus Intelligence, however I can't confirm a timeframe as to when this will be live yet."

And
"We will update everyone on our website and social media channels"

So it looks like I'm stuck with Go for a while yet.

You just turn the Ohme into a dumb charger, then sign up to IO with "generic 7kW EVSE". IO does all the scheduling.

 

[exlatccatsa]

I thought you only need a car or a charger that is compatible? My zappi isn’t being controlled it’s the Tesla that is calling for a charge

I watched a YouTube video last night which said you needed a OCPP charger. Perhaps they were wrong?
@browellm I understood that if you ask them to make the charger dumb, you loose the ability to remake it smart again.
The home assistant thing sounds great.. I'm waiting for my son who's just graduating this year with a computing science degree to help me with that.

 

[Garry TheBiz]

@browellm out of curiosity, which batteries are you controlling from Home Assistant? I presume it's not a Powerwall?

 

[browellm]

@browellm out of curiosity, which batteries are you controlling from Home Assistant? I presume it's not a Powerwall?

Givenergy (as per sig, which you can't see on mobile )

 

[Cilonen]

Guess I got lucky with Octopus - my Go Faster tariff ends this month, but today got the following email:

Hi,

As with all of our cutting-edge smart tariffs, sometimes things can go a bit... wrong.

Your contract with us was recently coming up for renewal, and we were supposed to send an email notifying you of the new rates. But instead, we didn't. Sorry about that.

Your account was one of a handful affected, and nothing else other than the renewal dates was impacted.

Because we didn't notify you in advance, your rates aren’t increasing. We’ll keep them where they are for another 12 months.

Thanks for continuing to trial tariffs like Octopus Go. While there may be bumps along the way, together we’re demonstrating what the energy system of the future should be.

Love & Power,

The Octopus Energy Team


Woo - (& for good measure) Hoo!

 

[spdpsba]

Guess I got lucky with Octopus - my Go Faster tariff ends this month, but today got the following email:

Hi,

As with all of our cutting-edge smart tariffs, sometimes things can go a bit... wrong.

Your contract with us was recently coming up for renewal, and we were supposed to send an email notifying you of the new rates. But instead, we didn't. Sorry about that.

Your account was one of a handful affected, and nothing else other than the renewal dates was impacted.

Because we didn't notify you in advance, your rates aren’t increasing. We’ll keep them where they are for another 12 months.

Thanks for continuing to trial tariffs like Octopus Go. While there may be bumps along the way, together we’re demonstrating what the energy system of the future should be.

Love & Power,

The Octopus Energy Team


Woo - (& for good measure) Hoo!

I got a similar email - though mine was due according to them when I contacted regarding renewal is only in June. So I did get in tocuh with them regarding renewal and they were aware and given me 6 extra months on the same reduced price. But now they sent an email saying they didn’t notify me so apologies and extend same rate for another 12 months. I am happy with the ‘end’ result but wondering whether this is a marketing stunt!

Anyhow thanks Octopus.

 

[ACarneiro]