Alternative DC Fast Charging

[Zoltrix77]

Hi all,

Just wondering what members of this group think of non-Tesla DC fast charging (eg CHAdeMO) in regional and outer metro areas. I have been contemplating how long Tesla will take to build out a wide coverage Supercharger network within Australia. It looks like we will definitely have coverage from Melbourne-Brisbane by the end of the year, and possibly Adelaide by forum chatter.



But how much longer will it take to cover areas outside of that? Major corridors are one thing, however, with Australia’s relatively tiny population; can Telsa alone cover all these possible routes (obviously we are not talking the Birdsville track!)? How much might members use slower DCFC stations (say 50kW) if they were available? And how much would you be willing to pay to use them? What sort of locations do you think would be suitable? Would you still drive somewhat out of your way to use a free Supercharger?



Superchargers will and are making a huge difference to the practicality of Tesla’s, but there are many areas where taking a Tesla requires lots of planning. Destination charging is something I see filling part of the gap when more accommodation businesses can offer something more than a 10A socket.


Thoughts?


Adam.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Hi all,

But how much longer will it take to cover areas outside of that? Major corridors are one thing, however, with Australia’s relatively tiny population; can Telsa alone cover all these possible routes

Superchargers will and are making a huge difference to the practicality of Tesla’s, but there are many areas where taking a Tesla requires lots of planning. Destination charging is something I see filling part of the gap when more accommodation businesses can offer something more than a 10A socket.

Thoughts?

Adam.

If I may comment, from a country with similar geography and population......
Tesla has filled in the 2 main population corridors in Canada: The "Toronto-Montreal" corridor, and "Vancouver-Calgary" (yeah it colours outside the lines in both cases, but let's keep it simple). Tesla will add Superchargers where it will get the most customers, and fill most of their needs. We may never be able to go cross country in Canada - just too much space & too little population.

Two things have sprung from this:

The growth of destination chargers has begun, and is expanding in the more remote areas - as per your assumption above.
One province, Quebec, has taken the initiative of sponsoring CHAdeMO stations all over the province. Most of them are $10/hr (at max 50KW/HR), but most Tesla owners can get a quick shot, and get going. My Province, Ontario, is *looking* at fast DC charging programs, but I suspect Tesla will have almost all of the southern, central and eastern parts covered in the next couple of years.

I still will not be able to get to Winnipeg from Toronto without travel through the USA - a luxury not available to Australians, should they want to get across the outback

 

[Blue heaven]

Hi all,

Just wondering what members of this group think of non-Tesla DC fast charging (eg CHAdeMO) in regional and outer metro areas. I have been contemplating how long Tesla will take to build out a wide coverage Supercharger network within Australia. It looks like we will definitely have coverage from Melbourne-Brisbane by the end of the year, and possibly Adelaide by forum chatter.



But how much longer will it take to cover areas outside of that? Major corridors are one thing, however, with Australia’s relatively tiny population; can Telsa alone cover all these possible routes (obviously we are not talking the Birdsville track!)? How much might members use slower DCFC stations (say 50kW) if they were available? And how much would you be willing to pay to use them? What sort of locations do you think would be suitable? Would you still drive somewhat out of your way to use a free Supercharger?



Superchargers will and are making a huge difference to the practicality of Tesla’s, but there are many areas where taking a Tesla requires lots of planning. Destination charging is something I see filling part of the gap when more accommodation businesses can offer something more than a 10A socket.


Thoughts?


Adam.

Hi Zoltrix77

The South-West corner of WA has 11 fast charge stations provided by the RAC after much encouragement by the Australian electric vehicle association, the charge stations are in an area from Perth down to Augusta and I would guess they put 85% of the states 2.6 million people within 100kms of a fast charger, each station has 5 different types of outlet including the CHAdeMO connector giving a Tesla up to 250km of range in one hour, I have seen Leafs, Miev's , i3s and all sorts of modified EVs at these stations, if I could describe the stations in one word it would have to be FANTASTIC. As much as I would like to see a Supercharger station on this side of the country it's understandable that Tesla have their hands full keeping up with demand on the east coast so this is a great alternative.

PS: a big thank you to one of our WA Tesla owners and regular forum posters who spends his valueable time driving from station to station maintaining the chargers.

 

[Oba]

There will be commercially available 200 amp CHAdeMO chargers available this year. I recommend pushing for those, and getting Tesla to modify their adaptor to handle 200 amps, vice 125.

 

[ColinA]

There will be commercially available 200 amp CHAdeMO chargers available this year. I recommend pushing for those, and getting Tesla to modify their adaptor to handle 200 amps, vice 125.

Tesla Superchargers deliver 120kW, which is 250A at 480V DC.

 

[ICUDoc]

Tesla Superchargers deliver 120kW, which is 250A at 480V DC.

Really? Mine only ever gets to 60kW. Is that regardless of state of charge? Or is there a setting to change??

 

[ColinA]

Really? Mine only ever gets to 60kW. Is that regardless of state of charge? Or is there a setting to change??

How much it delivers depends on the existing state of charge, Ie. It will start throttling back the charge rate as the batteries get to roughly 75% plus in order to protect and properly mange the batteries. Also, the charge bandwidth is shared usually in the A/B pairs at a supercharger station, so if someone else is charging, for example, on 1B while you are on 1A at the same time you will get significantly less.

 

[Chuq]

I still will not be able to get to Winnipeg from Toronto without travel through the USA - a luxury not available to Australians, should they want to get across the outback

I think that if the Nullarbor route ever happens it will be mostly as a PR exercise (although ALL Superchargers fall under marketing expenses, but the Nullarbor even more so). It may not be that likely, but more likely than Canada for the reasons you mention (they have an alternative).

They could get as far east as Norseman (WA) and as far west as Ceduna (SA) using the normal Supercharger format. So this leaves a 1200 km gap to fill in. I expect Tesla will have to come up with a unique format for these superchargers that are suited to locations that are completely independent, in the middle of nowhere. I know there are towns but services may be extremely limited (they probably all run of diesel generators too).

* Completely off-grid, with solar and battery storage.
* Some sort of either indoors or underground (for passive cooling purposes) parking area.
* An air-conditioned lounge with toilets, vending machines, air-con, TV, wifi etc.

Not your everyday supercharger site, but not your everyday location either

 

[Oba]

Tesla Superchargers deliver 120kW, which is 250A at 480V DC.

The Supercharger operates at battery voltage multiplied by 370 amps maximum.

The max battery voltages are as follows:

60-70kWh battery - 354 volts max (example 320v * 370a = about 120kW)
85-90kWh battery - 403 volts max (example 360v * 330a = about 120kW)

The Superchargers can operate at 135kW total for two cars, with each car limited to 120kW max.

 

[raynewman]

and what Bjørn Nyland had to say...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys2vV3PT0ug&app=desktop

 

[ColinA]

The Supercharger operates at battery voltage multiplied by 370 amps maximum.

The max battery voltages are as follows:

60-70kWh battery - 354 volts max (example 320v * 370a = about 120kW)
85-90kWh battery - 403 volts max (example 360v * 330a = about 120kW)

The Superchargers can operate at 135kW total for two cars, with each car limited to 120kW max.

Spot on Oba, although not all of the Superchargers have been upgraded to 135kW from 120kW as I understand it... assume your original post below you meant kW rather than A then? Elon Musk has talked about upgrading them to 150kW too - we'll see if that happens!

- - - Updated - - -

and what Bjørn Nyland had to say...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys2vV3PT0ug&app=desktop

Oh Ray, that's friggin awesome!!