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Always-on Brake hold mode?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by plasmo, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. plasmo

    plasmo Member

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    One of the things that I noticed on my new X is that many times after breaking the car to a stop, I notice the car start to roll backwards slightly right before hitting the accelerator pedal.
    I know that pushing harder on the brake turns on the Hold mode (which is what I want), but is there a way to disable the car rolling backwards altogether? (Or other words, always turn on Hold mode every time I brake)

    It's hard to get used to this and worry that I'm gonna hit something behind me. I have creep off, if that makes a difference.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Phil Seastrand

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    Yes, turning creep on will help, but not entirely eliminate it. If the hill is steep enough, the car will still roll backwards.
     
  3. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

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    Not sure whether Creep mode is your friend or not. Creep will bite if the slope is gentle but could still let the car roll back if a little steeper so cannot be relied upon for this purpose.

    Hold is easier to turn on with Creep mode off as it does not need as firm/deep a press off the brake pedal.

    I am also a new Model X owner and found that by the third day of use it becomes almost automatic to press and check for the notification on the screen.

    After two weeks of usage you need to be careful when driving an ICE as I have found out to my embarrassment, I have got so used to driving the X that when I borrowed my wife's car, on stopping, I just got out to run an errand without thinking. I had not only left the car unlocked but also left the key in the ignition and running which is how I found it 10 minutes later on my return.
     
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  4. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    It does seem a bit crazy the system behaves that way to me too.
     
  5. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

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    Which bit do you find crazy? The roll backwards situation? Maybe there wasn't a simple engineering or programming fix but it really isn't a big deal to adjust driving habits slightly and use the hold brake.

    I have had automatic cars that hold on a slight incline but not on a steeper hill and they don't have a hold option. That is crazy.
     
  6. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    What I find crazy is that a system that is software controlled acts as if it's being implemented with springs and levers.
     
  7. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

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    Ok, this is where my ignorance is shown. When hold is engaged, does it apply the mechanical brake or lock the motor? could this make a difference as to whether an alternative solution is easy or not?
     
  8. PacManMX

    PacManMX Member

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    By habit I press hold at nearly every stop. Love the feature. However, there have been a few instances (probably my fault) where for whatever reason I either accidentally tapped the brake after being in hold, tapped the gas, or perhaps never confirmed it was in hold in the first place. Have come close to tapping the car in back of me. In general, when in drive, I NEVER want to move in reverse.

    Desire (feature request) is for the following:

    If I'm stopped, and creep is set to off, automatically put the car in hold. "Stopped" can be defined as that instant of time before rolling backwards when slowing down moving uphill.

    If that isn't possible due to a safety concern or regulation, then also visually and audibly warn me the instant the car rolls in reverse when in "drive".
     
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  9. plasmo

    plasmo Member

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    +1 This, exactly.
     
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  10. thimel

    thimel Member

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    It applies the regular brakes. There is no lock on the motor.
     
  11. Festerfeet

    Festerfeet Member

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    Thank you, that what it feels like but I wasn't sure.

    As you may have gathered, I am new to the Tesla family and still learning about the car.

    I also cannot envisage many circumstances where I would want the car to roll backwards (although I found one today) when stopped but still in drive. On the other hand I have no problem with the current set up and have not found it inconvenient or difficult to get in the habit of applying hold when I draw to a stop.
     
  12. John_C

    John_C Member

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    +2 from a MS driver.

    Would love to see the hold automatically/always applied when stopped when creep is off. Or if anyone really likes the current system of rolling around randomly, then give us a third option for how the car behaves when stopped - Creep (ICE behavior), Neutral (current default behavior), or Locked (when stopped, it stays stopped until we press the accelerator).
     
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  13. Yoonoo

    Yoonoo New Member

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    Felt the same way during my test drive. With creep off and regen you would barely have to hit the brakes. The car should automatically apply hold any time it comes to a full stop. This could be implemented via software and would love to see it included as an option in a future update.
     
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  14. Jrogville

    Jrogville Member

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    I haven't studied this part of the manual yet, but are we talking about being on a hill in stop-and-go traffic? Like the gap in time between taking your foot off the brakes and stepping on the accelerator (had to resist saying "step on the gas", new to this obviously). Is there an analogy to the ICE 'Park' setting versus the emergency brakes? Is there a higher level of braking than depressing the Park button? Is that the 'hold' function you are referring to?
     
  15. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #15 Ulmo, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
    I've rolled backwards in my new Tesla Model S a dozen or so times, always with someone behind me, and only narrowly missed hitting them on several occasions. I never had this problem in any other automatic transmission car, with very rare exception of super-hills: the hills were usually so steep that I was completely aware of the issue. However, the Tesla rolls backwards in all sorts of situations which I would never consider dangerous for an ICE and in fact were not dangerous for an ICE. I think when in Drive, the Teslas should only allow forward movement, regardless of all other settings, conditions, operational settings, whatever foot pedals the driver presses in whatever combination and timings, etc.

    This is a clear safety and damage issue that is entirely different about the way Tesla operates from other cars.

    I don't want always-on brake hold so much as I want a never-go-backwards setting. Whenever speed gets to 0, Tesla should apply the brake no matter what. When accelerating, the brake shouldn't be released until forward pressure is felt. Wind, gravity, and other factors could pull it back. Simply having your foot near enough to the go or stop pedals to momentarily press one pedal a little and cause it to "disengage hill hold" is not a good excuse to let the car roll back.
     
  16. PhSwX

    PhSwX Member

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    The X behaves more like a car with gears. When you stop in a car with gears you have to push the clutch pedal or the car (with the running motor) gos forward. But with the pressed clutch pedal the cars rolls back or forward on a hill. So, used to gears I press automatically the brake pedal when I stop.
    I'm even used to let me roll back letting go the brake pedal to correct my position in front of the garage without the use of the reverse gear.

    You see coming from gears the Tesla behaves very good.;)
     
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  17. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    Trying backing down a steep driveway to park at an AirBnB when the incline is too steep to control with just using the brakes. After almost hitting the AirBnB twice, I just popped it in reverse to get over the hump, then popped it into drive and pushed the go pedal to slow/control my descent down the driveway. I could have gone nose first (then be in reverse and press the go pedal to slow traveling forward), but then I risked scraping the nose since the back sits higher in the S.

    I regularly count on being able to roll when parking around town, though I'm sure I could survive if that behavior suddenly stopped.
     
  18. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    What I'm surprised to hear is that it seems that people are not experiencing (H)old on every stop. Whenever I have an AP-capable loaner instead of my Classic, (H)old engages every time I come to a full stop.
     
  19. thimel

    thimel Member

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    My normal stop is done almost entirely with regen. The light brake pedal pressure I use to slow the last 5-10 MPH doesn't trigger hill hold. I like it this way and consider it normal. I guess you have a heavier foot than I do.
     
  20. Cyclone

    Cyclone Cyclonic Member ((.oO))

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    I normally don't hit the brakes until the car says 0 mph, but then I press it down enough I guess.
     

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