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Am I underthinking this?

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I read all these posts on here about SGIP and load vs efficiency. My brain hurts. Are you guys overthinking or am I underthinking?

I told Tesla I want four Powerwalls to go with my 10kw solar already installed. I'll get the 30% fed rebate and charge the batteries off the panels. I don't want to have to hunt down an installer that may or may not be able to deliver. Then when the big quake hits, I should be completely grid independent for a good 4-6 months of the year if need be. Considering how few homes there are in our neck of the woods, about 130 on our 10 mile street, we'll be pretty low on the PGE repair list. I could see a month of no power, easily. Longer if some of these elderly bridges collapse. No home generator would handle that. If the quake hits in deepest, darkest December, we're still making about 8.7kwh of power per day on average. Turning off the heat pumps and everything unnecessary should still get us by. We can bundle up.

We also get power outages 1-3 times a year from car crashes into power poles or trees falling. We have propane on one water heater and electric on the other, so we could turn off the electric and cut the power use even more. With 20kw of batteries, there's a good buffer. We can run the whole house since our largest branch circuits are 100 amps. I won't have to maintain or manage a generator anymore, which is a huge pain in the butt and unreliable. I also have the option of adding more solar some day. No more dragging the garage door open. No more unbolting the front gate. Actually, we stopped closing the gate partly for this reason.
 
I told Tesla I want four Powerwalls to go with my 10kw solar already installed.
FYI, PG&E may limit you to 3 Powerwalls, their NEM tariff has a requirement that for more than 10 kW (power) of storage, the storage is limited to 150% of the size of your solar system.

I'll get the 30% fed rebate and charge the batteries off the panels.
If installing 3 or more Powerwalls through Tesla, they should be able to get you the SGIP rebate under the Large Storage category, where Tesla has yet to hit its developer cap (currently $17.6M used of its $20.7M cap).

We can run the whole house since our largest branch circuits are 100 amps.
Is that a Tesla HPWC? If so you might want to set it to a lower current, or install a smaller EVSE for use on battery.

Cheers, Wayne
 
A quality water cooled commercial grade generator of that size, such as a Kohler, would cost around $19,000 installed. The 4 Powerwalls would be around $26,000, with the tax credit bringing final cost to about $18,000. Not such a bad deal.

Does anyone know if the battery tax credit applies when claimed with existing solar from a previous tax year, or can it only be claimed with solar installed in the same tax year?
 
Does anyone know if the battery tax credit applies when claimed with existing solar from a previous tax year, or can it only be claimed with solar installed in the same tax year?
Independent of the year in which the solar is installed, battery storage qualifies for the ITC only if it is charged at least 75% from solar. The amount of the ITC is pro-rated by the solar charging percentage, so anywhere from 75% to 100%.

Cheers, Wayne
 
I read all these posts on here about SGIP and load vs efficiency. My brain hurts. Are you guys overthinking or am I underthinking?

I told Tesla I want four Powerwalls to go with my 10kw solar already installed. I'll get the 30% fed rebate and charge the batteries off the panels. I don't want to have to hunt down an installer that may or may not be able to deliver. Then when the big quake hits, I should be completely grid independent for a good 4-6 months of the year if need be. Considering how few homes there are in our neck of the woods, about 130 on our 10 mile street, we'll be pretty low on the PGE repair list. I could see a month of no power, easily. Longer if some of these elderly bridges collapse. No home generator would handle that. If the quake hits in deepest, darkest December, we're still making about 8.7kwh of power per day on average. Turning off the heat pumps and everything unnecessary should still get us by. We can bundle up.

We also get power outages 1-3 times a year from car crashes into power poles or trees falling. We have propane on one water heater and electric on the other, so we could turn off the electric and cut the power use even more. With 20kw of batteries, there's a good buffer. We can run the whole house since our largest branch circuits are 100 amps. I won't have to maintain or manage a generator anymore, which is a huge pain in the butt and unreliable. I also have the option of adding more solar some day. No more dragging the garage door open. No more unbolting the front gate. Actually, we stopped closing the gate partly for this reason.
Your situation and strategy sound very similar to mine. We live in a sparse neighborhood with some outages. Our backup heat is wood for the house and if need be bathing. Like you, my focus has been disaster prep since we are the last house on our circuit. Between my two (soon to be three) PWs, solar and my model S I limit the amount of power sold to PG&E to an insignificant amount.
 
Go off grid all year round ;)

We're down in a canyon. I'd have to add a lot more panels to do that. Probably something like another 10KW. That's actually a future plan, though.

If you're willing to spend that much money on Powerwalls, you should also be willing to spend money on an emergency generator for critical loads. That would handle the case where key system controller hardware goes down.

I have a generator, and I hate it. It's broken now, AGAIN. Mechanical is much less reliable than solid state, and requires a lot more maintenance.

FYI, PG&E may limit you to 3 Powerwalls, their NEM tariff has a requirement that for more than 10 kW (power) of storage, the storage is limited to 150% of the size of your solar system.


If installing 3 or more Powerwalls through Tesla, they should be able to get you the SGIP rebate under the Large Storage category, where Tesla has yet to hit its developer cap (currently $17.6M used of its $20.7M cap).


Is that a Tesla HPWC? If so you might want to set it to a lower current, or install a smaller EVSE for use on battery.

Cheers, Wayne

Tesla seems to think I can get 4 in. I asked my sales rep about SGIP with 4. Previously, he said no. I didn't specifically ask about the large systems. I just sent him an email.

We don't own a Tesla. The 100amp branch circuits are from our well house to our main house and our garage/in-law. The garage has two level 2 chargers installed, but right now we only have one EV. For a while, we had two. In a year or two, we'll be back up to two, I hope.

A quality water cooled commercial grade generator of that size, such as a Kohler, would cost around $19,000 installed. The 4 Powerwalls would be around $26,000, with the tax credit bringing final cost to about $18,000. Not such a bad deal.

Does anyone know if the battery tax credit applies when claimed with existing solar from a previous tax year, or can it only be claimed with solar installed in the same tax year?

Yes, a good, reliable generator is expensive. We'd also have to keep the propane tank full, and running 24/7 would use up that fuel quickly. Plus dreaded maintenance. You can get the tax rebate any year, as far as I know.

Your situation and strategy sound very similar to mine. We live in a sparse neighborhood with some outages. Our backup heat is wood for the house and if need be bathing. Like you, my focus has been disaster prep since we are the last house on our circuit. Between my two (soon to be three) PWs, solar and my model S I limit the amount of power sold to PG&E to an insignificant amount.

I want to install a wood-burning insert or stove. I just haven't gotten around to it. We give a good amount of power back in the summer and take a bit of power in the edge months of summer. In the winter, though, we do use a lot of PGE. It's nothing we couldn't live without if there's a power outage in the heart of winter, though. It would just kinda suck. I'd have to manually manage the water pumps, turn off the electric, and the main house HVAC. Turn off my media server. Unplug everything unnecessary. Shower in the in-law, which has our only propane device, an on-demand water heater. We'd get by, but it would be a bit simple and less comfortable.

Again, though, I could just install 10kw more of solar. I think that's going to happen eventually.
 
The 100amp branch circuits are from our well house to our main house and our garage/in-law.
Then most likely those 100 amp circuits are going to subpanels in those locations, which means that the circuits are feeders and not branch circuits. The branch circuit is the wiring from the last breaker to the load. What is the largest branch circuit breaker that you have? That should be what matters for Tesla's "max 30 amps * number of Powerwalls" rule.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Hey, neighbor!

All of the economics revolve around actually GETTING the SGIP rebate. I'd look into WWhitney's post above, where qualification for the Large Storage program might be achievable.

I have little confidence that you can count on getting the SGIP rebates for an install of 1-2 PWs now...


Rich
 
Then most likely those 100 amp circuits are going to subpanels in those locations, which means that the circuits are feeders and not branch circuits. The branch circuit is the wiring from the last breaker to the load. What is the largest branch circuit breaker that you have? That should be what matters for Tesla's "max 30 amps * number of Powerwalls" rule.

Cheers, Wayne

OK. I misunderstood. Then they're feeder circuits. The largest branch we have is, I believe, 60 amps for the 5 ton house heat pump.
 
Hey, neighbor!

All of the economics revolve around actually GETTING the SGIP rebate. I'd look into WWhitney's post above, where qualification for the Large Storage program might be achievable.

I have little confidence that you can count on getting the SGIP rebates for an install of 1-2 PWs now...


Rich
I don't especially care about getting the SGIP. I mean, it'd be nice, lotsa discount, but the decision to get the powerwalls was not based on price.