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Am I wrong in wishing FSD Beta had a lane change confirmation option like NOA?

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Just wondering if my wish for a toggle option to request confirmation before initiating a lane change, similar to how NOA works, is a bad idea.

With NOA, I love having the option to accept or reject NOA wanting to switch lanes.

For me, this would remove most of the stress I have in using FSD Beta in certain busy urban traffic situations. There are cases where I really would like to use FSD Beta but not have the car switch lanes. For example if a turn is coming up soon and I know traffic around me is heavy, the better option might be to stay put in your current lane. This will also prevent cases where the car tries to drive around vehicles stopped in traffic.

I wish I could use the FSD Beta capabilities more like the way I use NOA where I have more control over whether lane changes happen.

Heck they can even use crowd sourced data to learn from when human drivers accept or reject the lane change suggestions.
 
Just wondering if my wish for a toggle option to request confirmation before initiating a lane change, similar to how NOA works, is a bad idea.

With NOA, I love having the option to accept or reject NOA wanting to switch lanes.

For me, this would remove most of the stress I have in using FSD Beta in certain busy urban traffic situations. There are cases where I really would like to use FSD Beta but not have the car switch lanes. For example if a turn is coming up soon and I know traffic around me is heavy, the better option might be to stay put in your current lane. This will also prevent cases where the car tries to drive around vehicles stopped in traffic.

I wish I could use the FSD Beta capabilities more like the way I use NOA where I have more control over whether lane changes happen.

Heck they can even use crowd sourced data to learn from when human drivers accept or reject the lane change suggestions.
Makes sense to me. Send your feedback to Tesla and let them know your thoughts.

There's a lot they COULD do to make it nicer, and I'm sure they will in time. My guess is that niceties like this aren't a priority right now; laying a solid foundation likely is. But still, I submitted somewhat related feedback regarding routing. It would be nice if you could alter the route FSD takes so that you could, say, avoid street X and take street Y instead. Right now, the only way to do it is by disengaging, driving manually to the point of change and waiting for the system to reroute. Not ideal.

Similar to AP lane changes, it would also be nice if when I flipped on the turn signal it would turn at the next intersection (and then reroute accordingly). That would probably be much trickier to implement in city situations, but maybe one day.
 
Just wondering if my wish for a toggle option to request confirmation before initiating a lane change, similar to how NOA works, is a bad idea.

With NOA, I love having the option to accept or reject NOA wanting to switch lanes.

For me, this would remove most of the stress I have in using FSD Beta in certain busy urban traffic situations. There are cases where I really would like to use FSD Beta but not have the car switch lanes. For example if a turn is coming up soon and I know traffic around me is heavy, the better option might be to stay put in your current lane. This will also prevent cases where the car tries to drive around vehicles stopped in traffic.

I wish I could use the FSD Beta capabilities more like the way I use NOA where I have more control over whether lane changes happen.

Heck they can even use crowd sourced data to learn from when human drivers accept or reject the lane change suggestions.

I haven't had a chance to test this, but I did notice (I think?) that when I pressed the "Navigate on Autopilot" button while driving on city streets, I hear a chime when the car decides to use the turn signal. Normally I don't press the NoA button unless I know I have some highway stretch as part of my route. Wondering now if the ability to cancel lane changes also appear when NoA is active on city streets.
 
I don’t have FSD Beta, but I think requiring lane change confirmations would be problematic because the car has to respond much more quickly in city traffic. With NoA on the highway, you have plenty of time to confirm or cancel the proposed lane change.
I got FSD Beta and agree. There are too many micro steps that you will be constantly hitting the confirmation stalk. This would be like FSD non beta auto pilot in city streets to comfirm green lights with the stalk which was annoying.
 
I agree. I sent an email to [email protected] recommending this:

I would suggest the FSD beta provide an option to require lane change confirmation (an option that could be enabled/disabled).

FSD Beta makes some very stupid (sorry for frank language) navigational decisions. The FSD Beta team could then perhaps use this data to learn and improve the project. When someone does not confirm the lane change, the team can investigate as to why and improve the system.

I have found myself turning off fsd (stalk up) on many occasions because fsd is doing the wrong lane change manuever
 
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I don’t have FSD Beta, but I think requiring lane change confirmations would be problematic because the car has to respond much more quickly in city traffic. With NoA on the highway, you have plenty of time to confirm or cancel the proposed lane change.

Don't understand how it's an issue though. The car wants to change lanes. Let's me know it wants to change lanes, I approve or disapprove and if I disapprove, and a lot of other beta testers disapprove in a similar location and situation, it could be useful information. And if I approve, it does not mean the car immediately switches lanes. It could do so when it is safe to do.

What I'm seeing now is more of a propensity than I wish to change lanes in busy urban traffic.

I realize they have 3 different settings now but I wish they would decouple acceleration boost from the lane changing behavior. I want the car to be assertive when blending in with traffic but would still like to retain the option to override unnecessary lane changes.
 
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I agree. I sent an email to [email protected] recommending this:

I would suggest the FSD beta provide an option to require lane change confirmation (an option that could be enabled/disabled).

FSD Beta makes some very stupid (sorry for frank language) navigational decisions. The FSD Beta team could then perhaps use this data to learn and improve the project. When someone does not confirm the lane change, the team can investigate as to why and improve the system.

I have found myself turning off fsd (stalk up) on many occasions because fsd is doing the wrong lane change manuever

A hundred times this! Glad you've reached out to them. Did you hear anything back? I'll send them similar feedback.

They can learn from whether beta testers approve or reject lane change suggestions.

And for those of you who like the current approach, notice we are talking about an OPTION here so it takes nothing away from you.

I feel there is a lot of valuable data they can gain from when lane change suggestions are accepted or rejected and it would make FSD Beta a lot more predictable to use in tricky urban driving situations.
 
I got FSD Beta and agree. There are too many micro steps that you will be constantly hitting the confirmation stalk. This would be like FSD non beta auto pilot in city streets to comfirm green lights with the stalk which was annoying.

Notice I said an OPTION. If it bothers you, don't use the option.

In my experience with crazy insane DC urban driving situations having the option to require lane change confirmation would be actually quite helpful, as I'm oftentimes canceling and disengaging unhelpful lane changes.
 
Just wondering if my wish for a toggle option to request confirmation before initiating a lane change, similar to how NOA works, is a bad idea.

I'd like this as an option as well.
I've been in the left lane (of a 3 lane road), when I knew I had to make a left hand turn in about a mile, and FSD decided to move to the middle lane. I had to stop it by disengaging. I can see farther than the camera , and know it'll be a PITA to get back over when my turn is close, so a confirmation would be great, vs having to disengage FSD.
 
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I'd like this as an option as well.
I've been in the left lane (of a 3 lane road), when I knew I had to make a left hand turn in about a mile, and FSD decided to move to the middle lane. I had to stop it by disengaging. I can see farther than the camera , and know it'll be a PITA to get back over when my turn is close, so a confirmation would be great, vs having to disengage FSD.
The problem sounds like if you had the navigator destined to make a left turn soon then it should have anticipated that by staying on the lane. Unless there was a car in front of you going very slow or other circumstances. That is better as a bug fix rather than adding more human tasks which would make it less autonomous.
 
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The problem sounds like if you had the navigator destined to make a left turn soon then it should have anticipated that by staying on the lane. Unless there was a car in front of you going very slow or other circumstances. That is better as a bug fix rather than adding more human tasks which would make it less autonomous.

That's one way to handle it - with a logic tweak.
 
The problem sounds like if you had the navigator destined to make a left turn soon then it should have anticipated that by staying on the lane. Unless there was a car in front of you going very slow or other circumstances. That is better as a bug fix rather than adding more human tasks which would make it less autonomous.

The thing is in order for it to be more autonomous it needs to make better decisions about making lane changes and this information can come from the frequency drivers accept or reject lane change requests.

Sometimes it likes to go around traffic that is stopped because the traffic up front is actually stopped behind another vehicle at a red light.

By detecting a high number of drivers rejecting a lane change in such situations, it can learn.

Would also make it more predictable to use it in tight and busy urban traffic.

And as I've said all along, people who like it the way it is can use it the way it is.
 
By detecting a high number of drivers rejecting a lane change in such situations, it can learn.
But that is not how planner works. Its different from how NN works.

Tesla needs to figure out how to
- Differentiate between vehicle stopped on the road (for some reason) vs vehicle standing waiting for other traffic to clear
- Differentiate between overtaking to go faster because of a slow moving vehicle in front vs general traffic condition
- Not use turn lanes near intersections to overtake !!!

They have to get a lot smarter than just throw a bunch of parameters with weights and do cost optimization to find the best path. (more accurately, figure out how to add "context" as a part of cost optimization).
 
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I switched my profile from Average to Chill so it'd stop automatically changing lanes to get around slower traffic.

This is a good idea but I wish it was more assertive in boosting to the speed of traffic without being too assertive about changing lanes.

Would love for them to separate out the driving behavior so you can set them individually.
  • Acceleration boost for merging and when traffic resumes
  • Stop sign behavior
  • Lane change frequency
This plus routes with waypoints you can save for pre planned FSD routes would be so awesome!
 
Just wondering if my wish for a toggle option to request confirmation before initiating a lane change, similar to how NOA works, is a bad idea.

With NOA, I love having the option to accept or reject NOA wanting to switch lanes.

For me, this would remove most of the stress I have in using FSD Beta in certain busy urban traffic situations. There are cases where I really would like to use FSD Beta but not have the car switch lanes. For example if a turn is coming up soon and I know traffic around me is heavy, the better option might be to stay put in your current lane. This will also prevent cases where the car tries to drive around vehicles stopped in traffic.

I wish I could use the FSD Beta capabilities more like the way I use NOA where I have more control over whether lane changes happen.

Heck they can even use crowd sourced data to learn from when human drivers accept or reject the lane change suggestions.
You can always cancel a lane change attempt by turning off turn signal.
I did not enable lane change confirmation in NOA, but when it shows it is going to change lanes, and I don't want it to then I turn off the dignal it cancels it.
Since it shows you in advanced that it is going to change lane you don't need confirmation toggle, just cancel when you don't want it to.
 
Personally I think it would just create more busy work,
because there'd be more occasions to say "yes" than "no".

The way I use the automation is without confirmation
but I cancel lane changes pre-emptively with the stalk
if I don't want it. I also ride the speed wheel a lot.

It's been true in Freeway NOA, and now I'm doing the
same thing with the Beta on highways and on the streets.

Since the system does the right thing more often than not,
it would be nearly paralyzing having to OK every move. It's
more practical to cancel a move or drop out of AP for a
moment if it's misbehaving. With 10.4 that's becoming
infrequent.

Another problem is that on city streets the moves are often
complex combinations that don't fall neatly into "lane changes"
to approve or deny. It would be like approving or denying
a specific move of a ballet dancer. By the time you figure
it out you'd be stalling traffic all the time.
 
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Update:

Lane changes still happen in Chill mode. On two lane road (each direction) yesterday and I was in the left lane and going to turn left into a parking lot as were many others. FSDbeta tried automatically switching to the free right lane. I cancelled it.

Note that I'm not using NoA.