Stuart, thanks for the posting and great insight. Amber turn signals for me too! I do not understand why TM would even consider red signals, given the statistics. I often see cars moving into my lane and do not notice the red signal light until they are well in front. Of course this applies to those who actually use their signals.
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Amber rear turn signals?
- Thread starter Stuart
- Start date
I remember following behind a car trying to figure out what the heck he was trying to signal... the thing was blinking like a demented railway crossing! As far as I figure out the behavior was best explained by (a) running lights on, (b) turn blinker on, (c) simultaneously pumping the brakes, and (d) I think one of the bulbs must have been burnt out.
That's when I realized just how dumb red turn signals are. Even with all that going on yellow turn lights would have made it obvious.
That's when I realized just how dumb red turn signals are. Even with all that going on yellow turn lights would have made it obvious.
Since I live in the EU I will get the amber ones, but I also prefer amber! Driving in the US again for the last two weeks I've noticed how hard it is to distinguish the Red brake light from the Turn signal.
Go for a clear and bright Amber turn indicator, that is much better (and I think it looks better as well)
Go for a clear and bright Amber turn indicator, that is much better (and I think it looks better as well)
SByer
'08 #383
Amber, with either a continuous fade between on/off or off being dim and not really off. Like the power light pulsing on a sleeping Mac, but faster.
But definitely, definitely amber. Irks me that mine are red now.
But definitely, definitely amber. Irks me that mine are red now.
If they come out red, I will try and find a way to change them. It has been as factor in not buying a particular car for me in the past, or I spent extra $$$ to get it changed.
I'm not going so far as to ask to ask Telsa try to institute new US regulations for light conventions (e.g. amber for "I'm slowing, but only a little bit") — I'm just asking them to take advantage of what US law already allows for better safety, and what most of the rest of the world already requires, and what many other US cars already have.
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I'll pitch in here and remind us all (I don't think Tesla needs to be reminded) that the NTSB has *always* suggested more lights. Driving with your headlights on. (Apparently, there are places that have a law requiring this.) Incandescent bulbs -> Halogen bulbs -> HID lamps. And now, even those LED headlights that don't have the penetrating power of HIDs, but are easier for others to see you coming. Fog Lamps. Driving Lights. Lights or reflectors in the door edge that illuminate when the door is ajar. Everybody has a white back-up light, even though I don't believe that there is a federal requirement for one. Back in the 70's there there was an addition for side marker position lights. Or wrap-around front and back lenses that hold them. Around 1985 or so, the CHIMSL (Center Hi-Mounted Stop Light) in the rear window was added. Lately, it seems there are new (European) rules requiring that even more lights be in the side mirrors. But wait! There's More! California has a law that if you have your windshield wipers running, you need to have your headlights on. (Curiously, California also has a law forbidding you to run about with just your parking lights on, day or night. Go figure.)
So. Back to the amber turn signal. I'll agree that it takes a tiny bit less of grey matter computing to detect a blink of light, and the amber color immediately determines the issue that it is a turn signal. If it was red, it might be a brake light, or a possibly a turn signal - the light will have to be watched for a bit more time to confirm it one way or another.
Ohyeah. You can't make the lights green or blue. I know 18-wheelers seem to be given some latitude on this, especially when they are decked out like rolling Christmas trees during the holiday season.
And there are even more lights that end-users can slap on the off-road vehicles, but let's not go there.
I'll also add another note to forward on to Tesla. Just because the lamp is preferred to be amber in the cause of safety, is no reason to sacrifice styling. There are some cars that just look less than they could be with an amber lens in an otherwise clean-looking rear deck. Perhaps a tinted lens can blend (or hide) the amber lens / reflector as long as it is not illuminated, and will present a much more refined and uniform tail. And that is the primary portion of the car that others will see
-- Ardie
I myself will let my turn signal blink *once* when I depart the freeway and transition to the exit ramp to wake up the tailgater behind me that I'm doing "something" that needs their attention. Haven't been rear-ended yet...
So. Back to the amber turn signal. I'll agree that it takes a tiny bit less of grey matter computing to detect a blink of light, and the amber color immediately determines the issue that it is a turn signal. If it was red, it might be a brake light, or a possibly a turn signal - the light will have to be watched for a bit more time to confirm it one way or another.
Ohyeah. You can't make the lights green or blue. I know 18-wheelers seem to be given some latitude on this, especially when they are decked out like rolling Christmas trees during the holiday season.
And there are even more lights that end-users can slap on the off-road vehicles, but let's not go there.
I'll also add another note to forward on to Tesla. Just because the lamp is preferred to be amber in the cause of safety, is no reason to sacrifice styling. There are some cars that just look less than they could be with an amber lens in an otherwise clean-looking rear deck. Perhaps a tinted lens can blend (or hide) the amber lens / reflector as long as it is not illuminated, and will present a much more refined and uniform tail. And that is the primary portion of the car that others will see
-- Ardie
I myself will let my turn signal blink *once* when I depart the freeway and transition to the exit ramp to wake up the tailgater behind me that I'm doing "something" that needs their attention. Haven't been rear-ended yet...
The lens can be clear. A monochromatic LED doesn't have show its color until it's illuminated.Just because the lamp is preferred to be amber in the cause of safety, is no reason to sacrifice styling. There are some cars that just look less than they could be with an amber lens in an otherwise clean-looking rear deck. Perhaps a tinted lens can blend (or hide) the amber lens / reflector as long as it is not illuminated, and will present a much more refined and uniform tail. And that is the primary portion of the car that others will see
S-2000 Roadster
#1244
Is anyone familiar with the actual federal regulations for turn signals? I would not be surprised to learn that there was once a requirement that they be red, and only recently has that been relaxed or refined.
Federal automotive regulations are often brain-dead, as the required chemical explosives aimed at passengers' faces should make clear. A few decapitated children later, and they realize the mistake...
Federal automotive regulations are often brain-dead, as the required chemical explosives aimed at passengers' faces should make clear. A few decapitated children later, and they realize the mistake...
Wikepedia:
Turn signal colour
Until the early 1960s, most front turn signals worldwide emitted white light and most rear turn signals emitted red. Amber front turn signals were voluntarily adopted by the auto industry in the USA for most vehicles beginning in the 1963 model year, though front turn signals were still permitted to emit white light until FMVSS 108 took effect for the 1968 model year, whereupon amber became the only permissible colour for front turn signals. Presently, almost all countries outside North America require that all front, side and rear turn signals produce amber light. In North America the rear signals may be amber or red. International proponents of amber rear signals say they are more easily discernible as turn signals. U.S. studies in the early 1990s demonstrated improvements in the speed and accuracy of following drivers' reaction to stop lamps when the turn signals were amber rather than red.[37][38][39][40][41] American regulators and other proponents of red rear turn signals have historically asserted there is no proven benefit to amber signals. However, a 2008 U.S. study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) suggests vehicles with amber rear signals rather than red ones are up to 28% less likely to be involved in certain kinds of collisions,[42] and a 2009 NHTSA study determined there is a significant overall safety benefit to amber rather than red rear turn signals.[43]
There is some evidence that turn signals with colourless clear lenses and amber bulbs may be less conspicuous in bright sunlight than those with amber lenses and colourless bulbs.[44]
Turn signal colour
Until the early 1960s, most front turn signals worldwide emitted white light and most rear turn signals emitted red. Amber front turn signals were voluntarily adopted by the auto industry in the USA for most vehicles beginning in the 1963 model year, though front turn signals were still permitted to emit white light until FMVSS 108 took effect for the 1968 model year, whereupon amber became the only permissible colour for front turn signals. Presently, almost all countries outside North America require that all front, side and rear turn signals produce amber light. In North America the rear signals may be amber or red. International proponents of amber rear signals say they are more easily discernible as turn signals. U.S. studies in the early 1990s demonstrated improvements in the speed and accuracy of following drivers' reaction to stop lamps when the turn signals were amber rather than red.[37][38][39][40][41] American regulators and other proponents of red rear turn signals have historically asserted there is no proven benefit to amber signals. However, a 2008 U.S. study by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) suggests vehicles with amber rear signals rather than red ones are up to 28% less likely to be involved in certain kinds of collisions,[42] and a 2009 NHTSA study determined there is a significant overall safety benefit to amber rather than red rear turn signals.[43]
There is some evidence that turn signals with colourless clear lenses and amber bulbs may be less conspicuous in bright sunlight than those with amber lenses and colourless bulbs.[44]
I was talking with Alex, manager of the Santana Row showroom, who, like all Tesla employees, has been super-helpful and very nice. You are free to contact him directly as well, but I'm not sure it would achieve anything extra at this stage. He already knows about this discussion thread, and has passed it onto other Tesla management and designers, who are interested in our opinions on this subject. I think open public discussion of the topic (as on this forum) is more compelling than a few private emails.
strider
Active Member
Model S already has this - the inner white part of the tail light glows red when you hit the brakes or turn signals. I assume it's white when reversing.
Mycroft
Life happens
Amber this, amber that; can someone please explain why this is so critical? If someone is slowing for a turn, why does it matter what color the rear turn signal lamp (if it's even being used) is?
I mean, it's nice to know that the *reason* someone is slowing down is because they're turning, but it's not necessary to keep me from running up their tailpipe.
Seriously, what am I missing?
I mean, it's nice to know that the *reason* someone is slowing down is because they're turning, but it's not necessary to keep me from running up their tailpipe.
Seriously, what am I missing?
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