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Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Stuart, Oct 4, 2011.
And another photo to booster TEG's find:
View attachment 3208
Well I have to say that I am a little uncertain about what is actually going on with all those photos.
Also, is the red car identical to the white in terms of light behavior?
I am fairly sure I only ever saw red on both parts of the outer housing (on the body), but I didn't recall seeing the inner light (on the hatch) actually light up when I was at the factory. I don't think they were using the turn signals or hazard lights much if at all.
I am thinking that the picture I recently posted did finally show hazard lights in use, and that the other photo 'Tommy' posted was just some trick of light / color distortion from the photo.
Maybe the next time someone sees a beta at a store they can ask someone from Tesla to turn on the hazard flashers to double check.
Maybe they do have two colors (red & amber) of LEDs behind the "light pipe" shapes and can change the color depending if for brakes or turn signals?
These pictures aren't helping me figure it out for sure.
It still may not be final production intent anyways.
They may indeed be the hazard flashers, AFAIK, the photo was taken upon the grand entrance of Elon; using the flashers to signal the beginning of the ceremony. A check of the videos of the ceremony might "enlighten" us so to speak on the lighting motif of the Tesla.
When we went to see the red car at Menlo the wkend after the Fremont event someone did turnon the hazards while we were standing behind the car and it was definitely red - both inner and outer lights. Even the "white" pipes flashed red.
A few possibilities come to mind, but I suspect this might be the explanation:
This looks like a long-ish exposure as it is motion blurred. Under these conditions the lights may well be bright enough to saturate the camera. In this case only the red pixels would saturate. There will be some leakage into the green and blue pixels, as the color filters are not perfect and tend to leak especially in the infrared. As a result the color washes out and looks much less red.
Yeah, probably something like that. It seems that photographing LEDs can produce unexpected results at times.
Just want to add to this thread that I went to the Model S NYC event and turned the turn signals on and checked them out on the Red beta. They were indeed red. I brought up this thread to two Tesla emplyees and the one guy said he would bring it up. After explaining to him the main reasons why (safety/easier to discern) he said he understood why even though he had never thought about that.
At the factory tour rides on 2nd October I asked the driver to put the turn signals on for me while the next set of passengers were loading, so I could check the color — and the rear lights were clearly red on that car.
I also checked at the Tesla showroom in Santana Row the following weekend, and those rear turn signals were red too.
It seems pretty clear Tesla is planning to make the Model S this way for the US market, unless we're able to persuade them to reconsider (or at least to offer us US customers the option of buying the Model S with the rest-of-the-world rear turn signals configuration).
Maybe some people will think red "looks better". Speaking for myself I don't care what it looks like — I'm not looking at the back of my car when I'm driving it. What I care about is being safe. If I have to choose between "safe" or "pretty" I'll pick "safe" — especially for something I can't even see!
That's what i think too. I am for amber.
Or maybe those betas just didn't have all the necessary cabling yet....so they used one light for both purposes.
I got some new information from Tesla today. The decision to use red rear turn signals was not an arbitrary whim of fashion.
Tesla tells me that US regulations require both brake lights and turn signals to have a certain minimum area. Also, for some reason, light area on the rear lift gate does not count. It has to be light area on the fixed part of the car body. Given this space constraint, there isn't enough room for both a brake light and a separate turn signal. This means that the brake light and the turn signal have to share space (conceptually overlap) in the rear light cluster, which means they can't be different colors.
Apparently other markets, including Europe, specify an amber turn indicator function but do not specify any minimum functional area.
It seems that US regulations, while ostensibly created in the interest of safety, are actually having the unintended consequence of reducing safety in pursuit of some rigid doctrine that favors size (and not-in-liftgate-ness) over color and effectiveness.
Aren't the light pipes are LEDs? I recall on my GLI I was able to get amber turn signals working while the brake lights were red. Can't remember if they were from the same LEDs, though I thought they were. In any case, if they have yellows for the European homogenization then there's a chance for us yanks to import the good stuff like we always seem to have to (the GLI's tails were imported from a Euro spec vehicle)
Of course red and amber LEDs can be manufactured in the same package or even just interspersed over the same area, but I suppose then there are cost and styling concerns.
Styling concerns? With the cheesy plastic lenses on the Roadster rear lights? It's one of the very few parts of the car bug me aesthetically.
Ehh... I was just giving them an out. Clearly if they wanted to do it, it could be done.
We were of course talking about the Model S.
Combining function might work okay for red brakes and red turn lights, but wouldn't it be a bit weird when you hit the brakes and signaled a turn? The light would be changing color and brightness. I wonder what the regulatory authorities would say.
I had to replace my GTI rear taillights to get amber turn signals. And it turns out run a wire from the front as US spec only get 3 wires (Brake, Tail, return). The Euro spec taillights have 4 wires (Brake, Blink, Tail, return). Then I had to do some VAG-COM work. Well I bought Euro spec LED taillights and they have a ring of LED. Half are red, half are amber. When the blinker goes on the brake lights go off. Now the taillights are also the brake lights, just dim. They stay on during blinking, but they get washed out you have to really look (and be really close) to tell they stay lit. Hell my blinkers may be illegal.
But I don't really care because my brake lights are much brighter and much quicker than my old incandescent bulbs. I would be willing to source some euro spec taillights when they come available and change them on my car. Maybe I can get a rear fog lamp too.
I think red blinkers are horrible. I wish they were not allowed. But then again it seems that only about 30% of the public ever uses a blinker it really doesn't matter. Hell yesterday I was driving behind someone with their left blinker stuck on. They turned it off, and a second later turned right.
Perhaps we should start a list for a group purchase for when the time comes to replace the light lenses. I will be first on the list. How can we do this on the forum??
No. When indicating a turn, that light would blink amber (instead of red). You still have the other tail light and the CHMSL to be solid red for braking.
In Boston, using turn signals is treasonous -- you're giving information to the enemy!