TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Amber rear turn signals?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Stuart, Oct 4, 2011.

?

Who wants amber turn signals on their Model S?

  1. Definitely want!

    77.8%
  2. Don't care either way.

    16.0%
  3. Don't want.

    4.3%
  4. "Tell them I hate them!"

    1.9%
  1. Tommy

    Tommy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    The great OC
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    20,619
    #82 TEG, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    Well I have to say that I am a little uncertain about what is actually going on with all those photos.
    Also, is the red car identical to the white in terms of light behavior?
    I am fairly sure I only ever saw red on both parts of the outer housing (on the body), but I didn't recall seeing the inner light (on the hatch) actually light up when I was at the factory. I don't think they were using the turn signals or hazard lights much if at all.
    I am thinking that the picture I recently posted did finally show hazard lights in use, and that the other photo 'Tommy' posted was just some trick of light / color distortion from the photo.

    Maybe the next time someone sees a beta at a store they can ask someone from Tesla to turn on the hazard flashers to double check.

    Maybe they do have two colors (red & amber) of LEDs behind the "light pipe" shapes and can change the color depending if for brakes or turn signals?
    These pictures aren't helping me figure it out for sure.
    It still may not be final production intent anyways.
     
  3. Tommy

    Tommy Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    The great OC
    They may indeed be the hazard flashers, AFAIK, the photo was taken upon the grand entrance of Elon; using the flashers to signal the beginning of the ceremony. A check of the videos of the ceremony might "enlighten" us so to speak on the lighting motif of the Tesla.
     
  4. strider

    strider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    When we went to see the red car at Menlo the wkend after the Fremont event someone did turnon the hazards while we were standing behind the car and it was definitely red - both inner and outer lights. Even the "white" pipes flashed red.
     
  5. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,797
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    A few possibilities come to mind, but I suspect this might be the explanation:

    This looks like a long-ish exposure as it is motion blurred. Under these conditions the lights may well be bright enough to saturate the camera. In this case only the red pixels would saturate. There will be some leakage into the green and blue pixels, as the color filters are not perfect and tend to leak especially in the infrared. As a result the color washes out and looks much less red.
     
  6. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    20,619
    Yeah, probably something like that. It seems that photographing LEDs can produce unexpected results at times.
     
  7. shark2k

    shark2k Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    West Orange, NJ
    Just want to add to this thread that I went to the Model S NYC event and turned the turn signals on and checked them out on the Red beta. They were indeed red. I brought up this thread to two Tesla emplyees and the one guy said he would bring it up. After explaining to him the main reasons why (safety/easier to discern) he said he understood why even though he had never thought about that.

    -Shark2k
     
  8. Stuart

    Stuart Roadster#326, ModelS#1409

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    At the factory tour rides on 2nd October I asked the driver to put the turn signals on for me while the next set of passengers were loading, so I could check the color — and the rear lights were clearly red on that car.

    I also checked at the Tesla showroom in Santana Row the following weekend, and those rear turn signals were red too.

    It seems pretty clear Tesla is planning to make the Model S this way for the US market, unless we're able to persuade them to reconsider (or at least to offer us US customers the option of buying the Model S with the rest-of-the-world rear turn signals configuration).

    Maybe some people will think red "looks better". Speaking for myself I don't care what it looks like — I'm not looking at the back of my car when I'm driving it. What I care about is being safe. If I have to choose between "safe" or "pretty" I'll pick "safe" — especially for something I can't even see!
     
  9. medved

    medved Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2009
    Messages:
    350
    Location:
    Slovak Republic
    That's what i think too. I am for amber.
     
  10. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Or maybe those betas just didn't have all the necessary cabling yet....so they used one light for both purposes. ;)
     
  11. Stuart

    Stuart Roadster#326, ModelS#1409

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I got some new information from Tesla today. The decision to use red rear turn signals was not an arbitrary whim of fashion.

    Tesla tells me that US regulations require both brake lights and turn signals to have a certain minimum area. Also, for some reason, light area on the rear lift gate does not count. It has to be light area on the fixed part of the car body. Given this space constraint, there isn't enough room for both a brake light and a separate turn signal. This means that the brake light and the turn signal have to share space (conceptually overlap) in the rear light cluster, which means they can't be different colors.

    Apparently other markets, including Europe, specify an amber turn indicator function but do not specify any minimum functional area.

    It seems that US regulations, while ostensibly created in the interest of safety, are actually having the unintended consequence of reducing safety in pursuit of some rigid doctrine that favors size (and not-in-liftgate-ness) over color and effectiveness.
     
  12. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,967
    Aren't the light pipes are LEDs? I recall on my GLI I was able to get amber turn signals working while the brake lights were red. Can't remember if they were from the same LEDs, though I thought they were. In any case, if they have yellows for the European homogenization then there's a chance for us yanks to import the good stuff like we always seem to have to (the GLI's tails were imported from a Euro spec vehicle)
     
  13. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,417
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Of course red and amber LEDs can be manufactured in the same package or even just interspersed over the same area, but I suppose then there are cost and styling concerns.
     
  14. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    Location:
    Cupertino, CA
    Styling concerns? With the cheesy plastic lenses on the Roadster rear lights? It's one of the very few parts of the car bug me aesthetically.
     
  15. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,417
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #95 doug, Apr 12, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2012
    Ehh... I was just giving them an out. Clearly if they wanted to do it, it could be done.

    We were of course talking about the Model S.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,797
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    #96 Doug_G, Apr 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2012
    Combining function might work okay for red brakes and red turn lights, but wouldn't it be a bit weird when you hit the brakes and signaled a turn? The light would be changing color and brightness. I wonder what the regulatory authorities would say.
     
  17. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,282
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I had to replace my GTI rear taillights to get amber turn signals. And it turns out run a wire from the front as US spec only get 3 wires (Brake, Tail, return). The Euro spec taillights have 4 wires (Brake, Blink, Tail, return). Then I had to do some VAG-COM work. Well I bought Euro spec LED taillights and they have a ring of LED. Half are red, half are amber. When the blinker goes on the brake lights go off. Now the taillights are also the brake lights, just dim. They stay on during blinking, but they get washed out you have to really look (and be really close) to tell they stay lit. Hell my blinkers may be illegal.

    But I don't really care because my brake lights are much brighter and much quicker than my old incandescent bulbs. I would be willing to source some euro spec taillights when they come available and change them on my car. Maybe I can get a rear fog lamp too.

    I think red blinkers are horrible. I wish they were not allowed. But then again it seems that only about 30% of the public ever uses a blinker it really doesn't matter. Hell yesterday I was driving behind someone with their left blinker stuck on. They turned it off, and a second later turned right.
     
  18. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,008
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Perhaps we should start a list for a group purchase for when the time comes to replace the light lenses. I will be first on the list. How can we do this on the forum??
     
  19. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,417
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    No. When indicating a turn, that light would blink amber (instead of red). You still have the other tail light and the CHMSL to be solid red for braking.
     
  20. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,844
    Location:
    Portland, Maine, USA
    In Boston, using turn signals is treasonous -- you're giving information to the enemy!
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC