An Owner Documented His Issues

[rallykeeper]

Watching these forums, I find it quite odd to see all these statements and counter statements about being long or short on TSLA stock. Ins't it possible that some of us just want to have a conversations about the merits or demerits of a company's product and services without it devolving into accusations about benefiting from the company stock one way or the other. Sometimes our relationship with a company might be just about getting the fair value for a specific product purchase and the service thereof. No more and no less. More often than not, being an investor or a consumer have nothing to do with each other. There are many companies whose products I would gladly use but would never invest in that company and vice versa.

Agreed, but saying you are long is sometimes necessary.

Unfortunately around here, occasionally when you write something negative about Tesla the product, you are accused of being short TSLA the stock. You only have to look at the posts above to see evidence of that.

Those of us that post that we are long are simply trying to bat down the short accusation right away.

It seems to be that TSLA is rather unique when it comes to the intertwining of investment opinions and product opinions. Only AAPL seems to foster the same level of "enthusiasm". (E.g., I'm not sure I've ever seen a positive or negative discussion of PlayStations devolve into accusations of being short SNE; or Disney movies, Microsoft Windows, etc).

 

[sukhi]

Those of us that post that we are long are simply trying to bat down the short accusation right away.

I think investing $100K+ in buying product of a company is enough of a proof

 

[ohmman]

I wonder if people think I'm long or short TSLA, based on my posts.

 

[ModelXBoy]

BTW guys, if you purchase a Tesla product, that is the best way to support Tesla. Buying stock does not help Tesla, once publicly trade company acquires its initial offering, their stock is then publicly traded, has nothing to do with Tesla anymore. So be a Tesla investor does not really help Tesla. People are in it for the money reason. If someone here on the forum believe Tesla is an innovative company and wants it to last as long as possible, the best way is to buy their product.

 

[sukhi]

I wonder if people think I'm long or short TSLA, based on my posts

I guess middle of the road folks like us could be accused of planting the comments to influence TSLA price to day trade in order to take advantage of the short term movements

PS: Of course we used the day trading profits to buy Tesla cars

 

[Blastphemy]

Buying stock does not help Tesla, once publicly trade company acquires its initial offering, their stock is then publicly traded, has nothing to do with Tesla anymore. So be a Tesla investor does not really help Tesla.

It helps every Tesla executive and employee who vests stock options as part of their employment contract.

 

[AnOutsider]

Ins't it possible that some of us just want to have a conversations about the merits or demerits of a company's product and services without it devolving into accusations about benefiting from the company stock one way or the other.

Amen. It seems there's an issue disconnecting owner from investor (and a number of folks who are just investors). There's also some folks who are VERY pro Tesla and perhaps see calling someone a "short" an easy way to dismiss an opinion or position that's anti-Tesla.

 

[pchan]

... People who are saying they are holding Tesla to same standards as any other car maker have questionable argument. Same standards can't be applied to Tesla as no other company is as extraordinary as Tesla ...

Very good point. I am speechless ... He probably only spent $140K on his X, what is he thinking? Problem free? Rust free? It made with metal, of course it rusts. If he agrees to be an early adopter, he also agrees to suffer.

 

[ohmman]

Buying stock does not help Tesla, once publicly trade company acquires its initial offering, their stock is then publicly traded, has nothing to do with Tesla anymore.

It helps every Tesla executive and employee who vests stock options as part of their employment contract.

That is one benefit, certainly, since buy-side pressure keeps the stock price aloft. Arguably more importantly, Tesla occasionally needs to raise capital and can issue a secondary offering, as they did last year. They were able to do it when the price was quite high, which is quite valuable.

Firms also report to investors. If share price is floundering, companies don't just ride on the coattails of their IPO funding. The stock price certainly doesn't have "nothing to do with Tesla anymore."

That said, I agree with @ModelXBoy that buying the product is as important or more so than buying shares of the company.

 

[proven]

That isn't possible. Mr. Musk and highly paid top execs are personally testing these cars. He said so in last ER. Are you saying they did a lousy job? Or did he not tell the truth?

Elon Musk made that comment after this guy already gave his car back to Tesla. This video may be new, but he took delivery on December 27th amid all the signatures that were delivered before the end of the year with quality issues. Not that I'm excusing the quality of his car--it's terrible--but that really doesn't represent what is coming off the line now.

 

[Subhuman]

BTW guys, if you purchase a Tesla product, that is the best way to support Tesla. Buying stock does not help Tesla, once publicly trade company acquires its initial offering, their stock is then publicly traded, has nothing to do with Tesla anymore. So be a Tesla investor does not really help Tesla.

While I understand your sentiment this is simple not true. How do you think Tesla paid of the DOE loan 8 years early and was able to build the gigafactory. This was all completed by secondary offerings. Interest free loan if you will from shareholders. Current talk is that Tesla will complete another secondary offering to excelorate production of the Model 3. Without access to capital markets Tesla may not be where it is at today.

Edit: Ohmman beat me to it.

 

[Drivin]

It helps every Tesla executive and employee who vests stock options as part of their employment contract.

Yes.
A higher stock price also helps Tesla raise additional money at a lower cost.

 

[Drivin]

but that really doesn't represent what is coming off the line now.

How do you know that?
There are cars coming off the line that have apparent delivery delays for some people.

 

[proven]

How do you know that?
There are cars coming off the line that have apparent delivery delays for some people.

Do I "know" it absolutely without fail? No because I don't work for Tesla--but I've been looking at the evidence.

One, ours delivered in March is great and only had a few issues. Second, the posts on here with problems have been slowing down. Third, the posts on the Facebook Model X group have shown fewer problems. Fourth, I haven't seen more than a few people writing about problems as bad as this guys and they were also in the early run of cars. Fifth, I live close to the service center and each time I've been in there recently anecdotally they are seeing fewer problems with the X's.

Taking all of that together it seems that yes, cars coming off the line are much better than what that guy received. Remember that his car was one of the first 300 delivered and many of those people had big issues. My understanding of the current delays are that they are waiting for the third row seat recall parts.

 

[AnOutsider]

I strongly recommend listening to this episode of This American Life, which documents some of the NUMMI history.

That was a REALLY good listen (listened to it in chunks while coding). Very enlightening, and sort of reinforces my dislike of unions and entrenched individuals.

 

[Drivin]

Do I "know" it absolutely without fail? No because I don't work for Tesla--but I've been looking at the evidence.

You are making a definitive statement that the line has improved, based on one actual data point (a $130k car that "only" has a few problems) and a bunch of random, unsubstantiated reports from anonymous people on the internet as well as the lack of information (not seeing posts as bad as this).

Well, ok then.

Kind of ironic given your screen name.

LOL.

 

[ohmman]

Very enlightening, and sort of reinforces my dislike of unions and entrenched individuals.

Agreed. Avoiding the thin ice of politics here, I'll just say that the story did a good job explaining how one particular union (UAW) in one particular arrangement (GM) had a tremendous amount of drawbacks and operational deficiencies. Some of the examples also show the value of Tesla's flexible robotic line (where they can pull a vehicle out but keep the line running).

 

[bhzmark]

the video is down. is there a repost or can someone summarize the highlights (lowlights)?

 

[proven]

You are making a definitive statement that the line has improved, based on one actual data point (a $130k car that "only" has a few problems) and a bunch of random, unsubstantiated reports from anonymous people on the internet as well as the lack of information (not seeing posts as bad as this).

Well, ok then.

Kind of ironic given your screen name.

LOL.

That's true, it's all anecdotal besides our car and the three or so other ones I've seen in person. But seriously are you arguing that the problems are still this bad? Or are you just trying to prove that I don't know for sure?

Edit: Also, I'm not sure why you responded so rudely. You questioned a statement I made, I responded with my reasoning, and then you laugh and make fun of me? I thought it was the start of a good discussion.

 

[xkwizit]

You are making a definitive statement that the line has improved, based on one actual data point (a $130k car that "only" has a few problems) and a bunch of random, unsubstantiated reports from anonymous people on the internet as well as the lack of information (not seeing posts as bad as this).

Well, ok then.

Kind of ironic given your screen name.

LOL.

I would still understand if someone who received a Model X that had more than cosmetic issues which Tesla hasn't been able to fix yet is venting here. But LOL, all these other folks trying to beat down the Model X owners who actually have a good car and are happy with their dealing with Tesla. That's pathetic IMHO. And defeats the purpose of sharing and learning on TMC.