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Analysis: Evolution of Model X second row 2012 - 2015

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
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While I didn't strive to include every possible detail in my summary, I think it is useful to mention at least here in a reply that Tesla also, a year ago or so, was said to be moving the seat-contracting to their Fremont factory.

Joel made this interesting post in mid-2015

The husband explained he worked for the seat manufacturer that supplies Tesla, and he is moving to Fremont next month (Tesla is moving the seat and headliner supplier in-house at Fremont). Apparently, his company is supplying the new seats that Elon mentioned in the shareholder meeting. He also told me that his company will be supplying the headliners as well. Anyway, I asked if he had worked on the Model X, and his reply was yes. He was excited to tell me that the seats are going to be ridiculously cool because the second row seats slide forward so you can enter the Third row with ease and the second row seats also rotate so maneuvering car seats is very easy (even when the child is already buckled in). It is difficult to describe this guy's enthusiasm for the Model X's car seats. I thought he was enthusiastic because that is his company's specialty, but after hearing Elon comment on it, they are something to look forward to.

We shall see if those seats, upon launch, actually offer any functionality beyond moving individually on rails and tilting which we have seen confirmation of so far.

I can't help shake the feeling that there may be a much better version of the second row right around the corner. The question is, is that corner in six to twelve months or three years - it makes quite a difference.
 

trader

Member
Jan 14, 2014
82
0
France
I have to disagree at least to the extent that the renderings on Design Studio do distinctly make the 1st and 2nd row headrests seem fixed and the 3rd row headrest seem potentially folding.

I agree renders may be inaccurate, of course, but it seems like they are at least following a certain logic in this case and thus seem plausible.

I don't see why whether or not 2nd row headsets are adjustable implies anything relative to whether the seats fold or not. You could just have the seats pushed back before folding them; I mean on the Model S, the headrests are fixed and the seats do fold.

The only information actually published by Tesla that implicitly gives us the impression that second row seats don't fold is that design-studio photo with all the boxes in the trunk and the second row pushed forward that you can't even use. I agree with you that if the 2nd row did fold it would make more sense marketing wise to show a different picture...

I guess one more week and we will be able to have all the answers ;-)
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
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I don't see why whether or not 2nd row headsets are adjustable implies anything relative to whether the seats fold or not. You could just have the seats pushed back before folding them; I mean on the Model S, the headrests are fixed and the seats do fold.

The only information actually published by Tesla that implicitly gives us the impression that second row seats don't fold is that design-studio photo with all the boxes in the trunk and the second row pushed forward that you can't even use. I agree with you that if the 2nd row did fold it would make more sense marketing wise to show a different picture...

I guess one more week and we will be able to have all the answers ;-)

Tesla has also published marketing texts on Design Studio where only third row said folding and second row did not. On the not-published but public front, several early reservationists have also asked Tesla representatives about this and received very clear answers that the second row does not fold.

I agree that fixed headrests certainly don't mean folding is impossible, but it has to be noted previous Model X mules used folding headrests to make the flat floor possible. The seats (with the third row) being so large that otherwise this wouldn't be possible - and also, I guess, to avoid the headrests creating "holes" in the flat cargo space. All this seems to be missing in the launch Model X now on the second row.

I agree that looking forward to September 29th for answers makes sense.
 
Per Joel's post:
He was excited to tell me that the seats are going to be ridiculously cool because the second row seats slide forward so you can enter the Third row with ease and the second row seats also rotate so maneuvering car seats is very easy (even when the child is already buckled in).

This reinforces my belief that the X is design for family with kids in mind. Anyone with kids and can afford it would want an X! I think X will be a great success
:smile:
 

AnOutsider

S532 # XS27
Moderator
Apr 3, 2009
11,957
210
Per Joel's post:
He was excited to tell me that the seats are going to be ridiculously cool because the second row seats slide forward so you can enter the Third row with ease and the second row seats also rotate so maneuvering car seats is very easy (even when the child is already buckled in).

This reinforces my belief that the X is design for family with kids in mind. Anyone with kids and can afford it would want an X! I think X will be a great success
:smile:

As a father of two, that would be awesome. I do recall someone saying that they were told "no rotation" though, so we'll see.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
Per Joel's post:
He was excited to tell me that the seats are going to be ridiculously cool because the second row seats slide forward so you can enter the Third row with ease and the second row seats also rotate so maneuvering car seats is very easy (even when the child is already buckled in).

This reinforces my belief that the X is design for family with kids in mind. Anyone with kids and can afford it would want an X! I think X will be a great success
:smile:

I guess the big question is: What if the launch seats do not have all this greatness, but a future iteration of the seats - once all the issues are fixed - does have them? If the person was gushing about a possible second row that was delayed? Not the one that is shipping (at first?)?

I am certainly looking at the info on launch keenly to see if there are imminent seat changes to be expected or reasonably speculated.
 

MrBoylan

Member
Aug 2, 2013
945
270
New York, NY
Per Joel's post:
He was excited to tell me that the seats are going to be ridiculously cool because the second row seats slide forward so you can enter the Third row with ease and the second row seats also rotate so maneuvering car seats is very easy (even when the child is already buckled in).

This reinforces my belief that the X is design for family with kids in mind. Anyone with kids and can afford it would want an X! I think X will be a great success
:smile:
Personal opinion: I'd take fully rotating seats where second row can face the third row while travelling over fold flat second row if forced to choose. But I'm not going to do a poll. :)

- - - Updated - - -

I guess the big question is: What if the launch seats do not have all this greatness, but a future iteration of the seats - once all the issues are fixed - does have them? If the person was gushing about a possible second row that was delayed? Not the one that is shipping (at first?)?
I'm not exactly sure who was being quoted (was that post from this thread?), but it seemed like it was coming from someone who had actually seen the seats in action, in which case, it would have to be what's shipping next week, no? I'm counting that as rumor for now, though it would definitely be cool if true. Pictures or it didn't happen!
 

vandacca

ReActive Member
Oct 13, 2014
3,371
2,248
Hamilton
If the renderings are accurate it's easy to see how the seats can be independently moved backwards and forwards; however they are fairly tightly side by side so it's pretty hard to see how they could rotate.

I'm in agreement as well, can't see how they can rotate at all. However, that "rotate" information may have been the plan last year and now things have changed. Maybe they also planned to have them fold too.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
I'm not exactly sure who was being quoted (was that post from this thread?), but it seemed like it was coming from someone who had actually seen the seats in action, in which case, it would have to be what's shipping next week, no? I'm counting that as rumor for now, though it would definitely be cool if true. Pictures or it didn't happen!

It was a quote from a year ago, summer of 2014. So, basically it could have been an earlier iteration of the seats the source was gushing about... Remember, this was around the time Tesla was still talking of a folding second row. Tesla could have shelved those seats or delayed them since then?

Of course it may also be the seats we see in a week's time do have more features than we know of. I certainly hope so, because I have a bit of a vested interest in the matter too. :)

The source is from here (the small arrow in the quote above), absolutely no idea about its reliability or lack thereof: Musk's hint to 2nd row seats in Model X The source could be completely wrong, a troll, whatever.

Anyway, I think the speculation itself has run its course for the time being. September 29th should offer us the next bit of fodder to go by, but until then there really isn't much more to say about it for me.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm in agreement as well, can't see how they can rotate at all. However, that "rotate" information may have been the plan last year and now things have changed. Maybe they also planned to have them fold too.

The big question is: Will that old plan come back, say, in mid-2016 or late 2016?
 
attachment-php-attachmentid-94220-d-1442327178-jpg.156279

I would be thrilled if this picture were possible, but as of yet there's no Cargo Mode to push the second row all the way forward like that, and if I try to do it manually, I get an error that the seats are "unlatched" or some nonsense like that that prevents the car from driving.
 
Anybody have an update on the folding second row seat issue?

What issue is this? The seats do not fold and will never fold.

The second statement is my opinion, but it would be a major step back from the intended design goals. If it was possible for Telsa to make folding Sears AND meet all of the other design goals I am positive that they would have.
 

pvogel

Member
Jun 23, 2015
917
215
Santa Clara, CA
If it was possible for Telsa to make folding Sears AND meet all of the other design goals I am positive that they would have.

If it was possible for Tesla to make folding seats, meet all other design goals, AND deliver in "time" (by whatever definition of "in time" actually fits the reality we've seen) then they would have.

But that doesn't mean they aren't still working on a way to deliver on folding seats in a future update of the car. My hope is that IF they do, there will be a viable upgrade path ideally to retrofit our existing cars or to trade in. But I bought in with eyes wide open that folding seats may happen in the future and if I want the folding seats (and I do!) I would have to upgrade the whole car and take some losses in the process.
 

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