Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Analyst Reports/Targets

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2014

+1. Purely for entertainment purposes, of course :tongue:

Actually I'd expect the GS and BofA ML reports to be quite good. They just don't view TSLA's competitive advantage like bulls/believers do. But they'll make some really good points about the risks and challenges ahead for Tesla. They'll have much more conservative forecasts and that results in much lower price targets. Though BofA's price target of of $65 seems a bit too grumpy.

I think we're at a disadvantage with short term trading if we don't have access to these reports and aren't able to evaluate them prior to market open. I don't think everyone here needs to read them but at least a few people should and let others know the general content/arguments in the reports and how strong the reports are.
 
Goldman Sachs and BofA ML have a lot of clients and are influential. Without their bearish reports I think we would be higher.

btw, would love to read the GS and BofA ML reports...

I have the B of A report. Highlights are (don't shoot the messenger):


  • Gigafactory will make the company even more capital intensive
  • Gigafactory is not giga demand
  • Competition exists for stationary storage demand
  • Pollution risk vs. potential job creation (yes, really)
  • Extremely overvalued stock
 
Actually I'd expect the GS and BofA ML reports to be quite good. They just don't view TSLA's competitive advantage like bulls/believers do. But they'll make some really good points about the risks and challenges ahead for Tesla. They'll have much more conservative forecasts and that results in much lower price targets. Though BofA's price target of of $65 seems a bit too grumpy.

I think we're at a disadvantage with short term trading if we don't have access to these reports and aren't able to evaluate them prior to market open. I don't think everyone here needs to read them but at least a few people should and let others know the general content/arguments in the reports and how strong the reports are.

I'll do my best to contribute to that effort as a client of Morgan Stanley, but Dave -- I have to tell you, your own analysis is balanced, insightful, and superior to many professional analysts covering Tesla Motors at major institutions. Don't put too much weight on their analysis vs. your own other than to consider that they will obviously have more eyeballs paying attention to theirs.

And I'm not aware of any algos/bots that scan for DaveT analysis and trade on it, though that would be a nice business venture I'd invest in. :)
 
I have the B of A report. Highlights are (don't shoot the messenger):


  • Gigafactory will make the company even more capital intensive
  • Gigafactory is not giga demand
  • Competition exists for stationary storage demand
  • Pollution risk vs. potential job creation (yes, really)
  • Extremely overvalued stock

Giga demand? Poor Johnny Petersen. Still talking about DEMAND for Tesla Motors products when the demand curve is in the stratosphere.

Another analyst who needs a hug. Or some Preparation H.
 
I have the B of A report. Highlights are (don't shoot the messenger):


  • Gigafactory will make the company even more capital intensive
  • Gigafactory is not giga demand
  • Competition exists for stationary storage demand
  • Pollution risk vs. potential job creation (yes, really)
  • Extremely overvalued stock

How many pages is the report?
Do they give figures on gigafactory capital requirements going forward?
Do they detail competition for stationary storage?
How are they concluding valuation on the stock and what projections and valuation method are they using?
 
I'll do my best to contribute to that effort as a client of Morgan Stanley, but Dave -- I have to tell you, your own analysis is balanced, insightful, and superior to many professional analysts covering Tesla Motors at major institutions. Don't put too much weight on their analysis vs. your own other than to consider that they will obviously have more eyeballs paying attention to theirs.

And I'm not aware of any algos/bots that scan for DaveT analysis and trade on it, though that would be a nice business venture I'd invest in. :)

Actually it's more to try to gauge how their reports will affect short term sentiment. For example, reading MS's 50-page report and seeing their figures and analysis, one can conclude that it could significantly impact sentiment, especially for the next trading day.

For GS and BofA reports, since I haven't read them I don't know how long they are, how comprehensive, and the full details of how they present their arguments. So, it's tough to judge the full impact on short-term sentiment. This is a big disadvantage for those of us trying to trade short-term options.
 
How many pages is the report?
Do they give figures on gigafactory capital requirements going forward?
Do they detail competition for stationary storage?
How are they concluding valuation on the stock and what projections and valuation method are they using?

i dont believe todays action reflects boa report. i believe the majority of the market doesnt appreciate the significance of the factory. they see company taking on more debt to build new factory in future. dont try to educate me on the importance, i do appreciate it. i suspect the market just views it that way. they also dont believe it will help the next qtr which seems to be most peoples horizon. i mean, look at the title of this thread. will help over time. i am just happy price not slipping much.
 
i dont believe todays action reflects boa report. i believe the majority of the market doesnt appreciate the significance of the factory. they see company taking on more debt to build new factory in future. dont try to educate me on the importance, i do appreciate it. i suspect the market just views it that way. they also dont believe it will help the next qtr which seems to be most peoples horizon. i mean, look at the title of this thread. will help over time. i am just happy price not slipping much.

Goldman Sachs is so big and respected on the street that they're able to affect sentiment profoundly. They have a ton of high net worth clients (individual and institutional) and their report went out to all of them last night or this morning.

The question is how well the report is written and presented. Without knowing that, we're in the dark.
 
I have the B of A report. Highlights are (don't shoot the messenger):


  • Gigafactory will make the company even more capital intensive
  • Gigafactory is not giga demand
  • Competition exists for stationary storage demand
  • Pollution risk vs. potential job creation (yes, really)
  • Extremely overvalued stock

I'm waiting for the call with BMW, VW, GM or MB management when an analyst says something like "We think your i3/ eGolf/ Volt 2.0 / B class can really allow you to compete in the rapidly growing BEV market, but where are you going to get the batteries from? Or do you not really believe in EV and are just throwing Billions of shareholder $$ down to satisfy regulatory requirements?"
 
Booked profit @257.87 and 253.68 back in @ 250.00 ..... :)

whew! ;)

As for the generalities on the B of A report:

pollution vs employment: see Elon statement re virtually zero waste and ability to reclaim almost all raw materials + pwred by sun/wind so forget that one.
gigafactory doesn't equal demand: seriously lacking any vision on worldwide demand for S,X and GenIII not to mention storage.
competition for storage: sure their referring to pumping water/thermal, again, zero vision here.

Can't wait to see the details cause they sound about as buried as the last supporters of whale oil refiners and buggy whip manufacturers
:) rant done
 
BofA ML price target $65 report - summary and analysis

Here’s my summary/analysis on the BofA ML report released this morning.

Length: 5 pages (plus 4 pages of disclosures)

Summary
1. Overall BofA ML expresses a bearish view of TSLA.
“We continue to believe that moving downstream into the mass market will create significant risk for Tesla, particularly considering that incumbent OEMs have the financial resources to be extremely competitive, not only on the technology front, but with vehicle pricing as well. In other words, incumbent OEMs could theoretically be willing to lose money on EVs to drive competition out of the mass market for EVs.”

In other words, they think ICE auto makers could release lower-cost EVs (that actually lose money) to displace competition like Tesla.

2. BofA ML expresses a bearish view on the Gigafactory.
“In our view, the Gigafactory investment will translate into even more capital intensity and add further pressure to margins and returns.”

They basically think that Tesla already has massive capex expenses ahead while trying to just scale auto production, but additional expenses for battery production just adds more capital requirements.

They also think that a 30% reduction in battery packs won’t make their cars more appealing than ICE cars.
“this reduction is unlikely to achieve the cost range TSLA believes is necessary to create a distinctive advantage over ICE vehicles.”

And they think that just having battery production at 500k doesn’t mean that the demand will be there for 500k cars.
“Also, having the capacity in place to produce 500K battery packs/year does not equate to generating this level of annual demand, particularly considering mass market competition from incumbent OEMs.”

3. BofA ML isn’t convinced about Tesla’s battery storage potential.
“There appear to be numerous, non-Li-ion battery chemistries that could challenge demand for Tesla's packs in the stationary storage market. In fact, Flow, NaS and lead-acid batteries all seem like reasonably attractive alternatives.”
They don’t go much into detail though.

4. BofA ML thinks TSLA is overvalued, extremely.
“We continue to view Tesla shares as extremely overvalued (see A $72 trillion auto industry?) and believe a significant correction is likely. We therefore maintain our Underperf rating and $65 PO, based on a 2015 EV/EBITDA mult. of roughly 15X.”​

So here’s how they come up with their valuation. They are forecasting revenue in 2015 to be $5.7 billion. They don’t give specific units sales and asp numbers but I’ll assume 57,000 cars at $100 asp in 2015.

Then, they’re looking at a gross profit of $1.6 billion (28%) and a EBIDTA profit of $587m. Since they’re giving a 15x multiple of this 2015 EBITDA income, their valuation given is $587 x 15 = $8.8b. Divide that by 135m shares and you get $65 per share.

DaveT’s take:
1. Overall, the report is flimsy and lacks detail of argument compared to other reports by Morgan Stanley (Feb 24 report was 50 pages) and Deutsche Bank (Feb 20 report was 8 pages). It reads more like a bullet point summary of some bearish arguments, yet the arguments are fully flushed out and are not very convincingly presented.
2. The main argument from BofA appears to be that they’re not very impressed by TSLA and see more risk than reward. They see ICE incumbents as having the resources to crowd Tesla out of the EV market if needed and see Tesla’s challenges of scaling production and demand as very daunting.
3. I respect the bearish argument and focus the inherent risks with TSLA. However, BofA ML presents a poor report that doesn’t even help the shorts much.
 
Looking at just the last couple pages, as an analyst in power, I don't think the fascinating thing is the take of the others, as much as it is the will of the TSLA investor to endorse an extremely high multiple. I wish the reports (and I haven't read many) were more forward about the balance between the multiple and the earnings underneath. I'm coming over to this forum, honestly, because I'm short, for now. Still have shares, but puts outrun them. I've been wrong every time I short TSLA ;) . That's the good news. The cool reason, however, is the prospect of another round of 100% dilution, depending upon as-of-yet unset conversion prices/timing for the 1.8bb note issue. Morgan Stanley's Jonas doubling his target, and working for one of the underwriters didn't help!

Lastly, the gigafactory news needs to address battery storage tech as it differs from lithium ion, in economies. Weight is less important and there is some distance to parity pricing, if litium is intended to fill that role.
 
I read the Morgan Stanley report & was impressed with their detailed analysis, while the Autonomous aspect is in the future & difficult to predict the report was insightful.

Sharing these Investment bank reports & having guys like Dave summarize them is priceless, plea keep it coming.
 
I have the B of A report. Highlights are (don't shoot the messenger):


  • Gigafactory will make the company even more capital intensive
  • Gigafactory is not giga demand
  • Competition exists for stationary storage demand
  • Pollution risk vs. potential job creation (yes, really)
  • Extremely overvalued stock

Yep, saw the same. It became really clear that this is a guy who doesn't understand technology and is looking at the company purely through the eyes of an auto industry analyst. If I thought of Tesla purely as an old-style auto company, I'd probably come to similar conclusions. Old-style meaning similar business model and margins, no significant underlying lead in technology and no synergies with other industries.

I've concluded that to be able to properly analyze a hot growth stock for longer term buy/hold/sell purposes, you've got be confident you can predict why a company is going to grow over the next 2-5 years (depending on how overvalued the stock is by traditional metrics) and that any obstacles are reasonable and can be overcome by decent execution. (This is straight out of the Peter Lynch playbook, btw.) This guy doesn't understand Tesla well enough to do that.

Honestly, if it weren't for the Gigafactory and the possibilities for Tesla to supply batteries for residential solar installations, I'd probably pull a large chunk of my money off the table at $250. But with that in play, I think I'm going to let it all ride. The growth scenarios over a 4-7 period are just insane.

Edit - I chickened out - it's not real money until you cash out so I peeled off a large chunk. Both the gains and the odds of the stock dropping sometime soonish just look too good. Still own some though and will buy more if the stock drops.
 
Last edited:
Goldman Sachs $170 price target report - summary and analysis 2/27/14

Here’s my summary/analysis on the Goldman Sachs report ($170 PT) released this morning (for BofA ML’s report summary, see here)

Length: 3 pages (plus 4 pages of disclosures)

Summary
1. Goldman Sachs ups their price target from $118 to $170.
First, their price target is a 6-month price target and the main reason for the price target increase is that they’ve increased the multiple they give from 20x to 30x (2018 earnings). The reason they’ve increased the multiple is as follow:
“(a) the increased liquidity which improves Tesla’s risk profile allowing it to make the necessary component investments to support its growth outlook, and (b) greater confidence in the company’s execution based on recent operating results which lend credibility to TSLA’s longer-term EBIT margin target of mid to low teens. We note we have not made changes to volume assumptions at this time.”

2. Goldman Sachs approach to TSLA valuation and their $170 PT.
GS has three 2018 scenarios and then they take the average of those three scenarios to come up with their 6-month price target.

ASPs for all three scenarios are $98.7k for Model S/X and $50.7k for Gen3.

Scenario #1: 170k cars sold in 2018 (80k Model S/X, 90k Gen3)
- $12.9b revenue, 14% operating margin, EBIT $1.8b, net income $1.3b, implied stock price $273 but discounted at 20% = $149 share price.

Scenario #2: 185k cars sold in 2018 (87k Model S/X, 97k Gen3)
- $13.8b revenue, 14.7% operating margin, EBIT $2.0b, net income $1.49b, implied stock price $311 but discounted at 20% = $169 share price.

Scenario #3: 200k cars sold in 2018 (94k Model S/X, 105 Gen3)
- $14.9b revenue, 15.5% operating margin, EBIT $2.3b, net income $1.7b, implied stock price $355 but discounted 20% = $193 share price.

So GS takes the average of their three scenarios ($149, $169, $193) and comes up with their $170 6-month price target.

3. Goldman Sachs on TSLA’s secondary
They don’t seem to have much of an opinion on the secondary other than that it dilutes eps estimates in the short-term (over the next 3 years) but not so much by 2018 (by 4%), which is the year they base their estimates on. They do mention that the secondary improves liquidity and thus is one of the factors in them raising their multiple from 20x to 30x 2018 earnings.

4. Goldman Sachs on Gigafactory.
No mention about the Gigafactory. Strange because why would they release this report the day after Gigafactory details are announced and not mention it at all in the report. Are these guys really following TSLA actively?

DaveT’s take:
1. The reason for Goldman Sachs relatively low valuation (compared to MS and others) is because they have fairly low 2018 numbers (170k-200k cars sold) and they don’t seem to be looking past 2018 to the mass market disruptive potential of Tesla. In other words, while they’ve become increasingly more confident in Tesla’s ability to execute, they still aren’t convinced that TSLA is going to become much more than a niche auto maker.

2. I’m also quite surprised GS’s report isn’t more bearish considering their past price targets. In fact, they’ve raised their multiple from 20x to 30x (2018 earnings) for their price target increase and this shows that even the analyst team at GS is coming around and having to acknowledge TSLA’s impressive execution and growth. They still seem hesitant regarding Tesla’s potential, demonstrated by them saying, “The primary risk is the sustainability of demand longer term.”

3. While Goldman Sachs’ report is very short (only 3 pages) and lacks depth of analysis, I think it’s a much better report than BofA ML since with BofA ML they make certain claims (ie., casting doubt on demand for product) yet they don’t substantiate those claims with well-fought-out arguments. However, at least with Goldman Sachs they’re not making really many claims. They’re simply presenting some numbers and saying while they’ve become more bullish, they’re still cautious. I would have liked for them to be more detailed and comprehensive, but oh well. In the end, this report doesn’t help shorts much at all as it falls short compared to the bullish reports/arguments published recently by other analysts.

4. On a last note, with GS becoming a bit more bullish on TSLA (I wouldn’t consider them a bull, since their PT is $85 lower than current price) I think that the overall general sentiment on the Street toward TSLA is becoming rather positive. The main argument seems to be valuation and attempting to quantify the true potential for Tesla’s products.
 
Last edited:
It won't start for a couple more hours, I think. 1:30 PST

Ahh -- thanks 772. Guess we'll have to wait until after the bell then, that's 4:30 EST / Wall St Time. :)

- - - Updated - - -

Here’s my summary/analysis on the Goldman Sachs report ($170 PT) released this morning

Thanks so much for doing this, Dave. Please repost these in your Megathread for archival purposes if you don't mind.

Scenario #3: 200k cars sold in 2020 (94k Model S/X, 105 Gen3)
- $14.9b revenue, 15.5% operating margin, EBIT $2.3b, net income $1.7b, implied stock price $355 but discounted 20% = $193 share price.

What this means is they flat out believe Tesla is lying or incapable of generating 500k cars sold in 2020. Which doesn't make sense given:

They still seem hesitant regarding Tesla’s potential, demonstrated by them saying, “The primary risk is the sustainability of demand longer term.”

Demand? Really? What makes someone think that a Tesla product with 80% of the product benefits at half the price of its current completely supply-constrained, world-beating product would not RAISE the demand curve rather than lower it?

I can understand speaking to macroeconomic risk, but product for product, there is no auto product that can or will compete with Tesla in the near future unless it's running on Tesla batteries, Tesla software and a Tesla powertrain...which basically makes it a Tesla. And 2020 is the near future in my horizon.

This, friends, is where the opportunity for arbitrage exists between slow analyst comprehension of shifts in company fundamentals, and fast comprehension on this forum. This is where vision can give us an edge. This is why I keep making money on TSLA, and am happy to do so for the next few years until the story is written in history for good.