Angry about HPWC replacement cost

[ohmman]

I think the risk of dust and debris getting in outweighs any advantage of letting heat out. Further, I think that heat from the HPWC is dissipated by conduction, not convection anyway.

If so, I suppose one (Tesla?) could fashion some sort of heat sink to aid in dissipation, if indeed the heat is detrimental to the lifespan on the unit.

Also, count me in as another user interested in Ingineer's 40% solution. I'm not seeing a 40% loss (more like 16% when comparing energy expended to energy delivered), but I'm assuming he means something different by that efficiency number. Definitely interested in slimming any losses en route to the car.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Would you be willing to start a thread about how you improved the efficiency of your HPWC? Thanks.

+1!

 

[Ingineer]

Let me think about it. I already had my first HPWC essentially be broken right out of the box. I'm hesitant to "void my warranty" (and yours!) before my year is up.

Adding heat sinks and turning the housing into Swiss cheese is not a good idea. The right thing to do is fix the problems that are causing the heat in the first place! You can't fix all, such as the #6 AWG charge cable, as least not easily, but there are definitely improvements that can be made.

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Except for 40 and 60 owners who's warranty isn't unlimited miles. I'd guess there are cars that are fully out of warranty already. Maybe not very many but some.

Also all the people using Model S for things like fleet use that instantly voids the warranty, such as Taxi companies. People that buy salvage cars and want to get them back on the road. All this Tesla resistance is really going to massively drive up insurance costs and make TCO numbers stink. Not good for Tesla's mission!

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Also, count me in as another user interested in Ingineer's 40% solution. I'm not seeing a 40% loss (more like 16% when comparing energy expended to energy delivered), but I'm assuming he means something different by that efficiency number. Definitely interested in slimming any losses en route to the car.

He can correct me if I've got it wrong, but I think Ingineer meant a 40% reduction in energy lost/wasted in the HPWC (which is what is causing the heat in the unit).

Energy lost when comparing wall numbers to energy that makes it to the battery includes losses from cooling, the car's electronics, and the like. Reducing energy wasted in the HPWC seems like low-hanging fruit when it comes to charging efficiency improvements. And it should improve the life of the unit as well as safety.

 

[Arvind]

There's many EVSE makers. Clipper Creek makes good ones. But you have to use the J1772 adapter and you can't pop the charge port door open with the plug, like you can with a UMC or HPWC. Plus, with the new low price of the HPWC it's really the best solution out there for a Tesla.

Thanks, I guess since I only have the UMC and it's covered it's mainly an inconvenience rather than a cost...I won't worry about it for now.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Very interesting thread, however I am a bit surprised at all the emotionality that it contains.

I come from the medical field, where some highly engineered product are placed in the marketplace. Without fail, someone will come along and find a way to make them even better. They are usually a bit condescending and often even arrogant at someone putting out a product that has areas of improvement. What they do not often consider is that someone was tasked with putting out a product to specs, including costs and availability of parts and the ability to produce it, and get it out into the marketplace where it will be implemented and reimagined for the next generation. They are never perfect, even though people's live will be dependent on their operation.

Sometimes this is just the way it is. Tesla says them make over 20 running improvements and changes every week. They seem to be tireless in their dedication to make these cars better in most every respect, however there are most always ways to make things better and more efficient. If a talented and gifted individual goes on a quest, focused upon a single part of a device, they often can come up with something even better.

The opportunity then presents itself. Will that person follow up with his better mousetrap by putting it into production and reaping the benefits, or...

I imagine Tesla is all over this issue, and would welcome any constructive improvements.

There are competitive charging systems in the marketplace. People can purchase the ones that serve them best.

 

[kennybobby]

Very interesting thread, however I am a bit surprised at all the emotionality that it contains...

Yes folks tend to get all fired up when they have insulation melting on the wires of the EVSE in their attached garage.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Yes folks tend to get all fired up when they have insulation melting on the wires of the EVSE in their attached garage.

By "folks", you mean that one person out of tens of thousands? Yah, let's focus on that.

 

[omarsultan]

I'm hesitant to "void my warranty" (and yours!) before my year is up.

IIRC, if you buy your HPWC with your car (i.e. its on the sales order), then it carries the same warranty as the car. If you purchase it later, then its carries a one year warranty. Its been a while, so perhaps this has changed?

 

[breser]

IIRC, if you buy your HPWC with your car (i.e. its on the sales order), then it carries the same warranty as the car. If you purchase it later, then its carries a one year warranty. Its been a while, so perhaps this has changed?

And now we've circled around. The thread was started because someone who bought an HPWC with the car was being denied warranty because it'd been more than a year. After complaining to HQ, this was resolved and they warrantied his HPWC.

At this point it's unclear when the HPWC changed to being just a year warranty even with the car (based on the experience this person posted that seems to have happened). However, you can't even order it with the car at all now.

 

[omarsultan]

However, you can't even order it with the car at all now.

That is a bit of bummer, did not realize that.

 

[beeeerock]

At this point it's unclear when the HPWC changed to being just a year warranty even with the car (based on the experience this person posted that seems to have happened). However, you can't even order it with the car at all now.

That bothered me when I was told to order my HPWC directly from the service center, before my car was even built. Clearly it was a purchase made necessary by the car, so not allowing me to order it *with* the car seemed odd. I wasn't aware of all the history to push it though. Having it installed before the car arrived was their logic and seemed like a good argument at the time...

However, this pattern is repeated with the second on-board charger. Bad enough that I couldn't order it as factory-installed, worse that the price is much higher as an accessory! It isn't readily apparent on the Shop Tesla site, but I'll wager it'll come with a one year warranty. Factory-installed would presumably have meant coverage under the car warranty. I won't be buying one unless I become desperate to have one.

 

[2fast2]

IIRC, if you buy your HPWC with your car (i.e. its on the sales order), then it carries the same warranty as the car. If you purchase it later, then its carries a one year warranty. Its been a while, so perhaps this has changed?

I can assure you that is no longer the case, and I was the person responsible for getting Tesla to remove that suggestion that the HPWC purchased "with" the car would have a 4 year warranty. That is history, you can't order "with" the car and all HPWCs have only 1 year warranty. I bought mine on a VISA card with buyer protection features that supposedly can extend warranty an additional year. Hope I don't need to find out.
The Tesla Store people tell me the HPWC has undergone revisions and is more reliable than previously. Mine has worked fine (in the one week I've had the 85D, haha.)

 

[S100D]

Let me think about it. I already had my first HPWC essentially be broken right out of the box. I'm hesitant to "void my warranty" (and yours!) before my year is up.

Adding heat sinks and turning the housing into Swiss cheese is not a good idea. The right thing to do is fix the problems that are causing the heat in the first place! You can't fix all, such as the #6 AWG charge cable, as least not easily, but there are definitely improvements that can be made.

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Also all the people using Model S for things like fleet use that instantly voids the warranty, such as Taxi companies. People that buy salvage cars and want to get them back on the road. All this Tesla resistance is really going to massively drive up insurance costs and make TCO numbers stink. Not good for Tesla's mission!

Ingineer, if you ever decide to make additional circuit boards to implement the 40% heat reduction solution I would be interested in one.

I agree that Tesla should change the design to make the the HPWC run cooler but I have thought about adding vents to the bottom and on both sides at the top of the case to make it run cooler. My HPWC is installed in my garage so there will not be any issues with rain, etc. I will wait to do this until after the warranty expires.

 

[cwerdna]

Also all the people using Model S for things like fleet use that instantly voids the warranty, such as Taxi companies.

Is there some clause in the warranty terms/booklet that states this?

I didn't notice anything like that in https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/model_s_new_vehicle_limited_warranty_2.1.pdf.

Model S Not Ready For Commercial Use Prime Time. Can I afford to own this car? uses a Model S in a livery service: Model S Not Ready For Commercial Use Prime Time. Can I afford to own this car? - Page 2.

 

[Ingineer]

Hmm. I read the warranty cover to cover before I purchased my car, and I vividly remember a "Fleet, Commercial, Taxi, or For Hire" exclusion. I definitely don't see it in there now! So either I am mistaken, or they took it out.

 

[Andyw2100]

I can assure you that is no longer the case, and I was the person responsible for getting Tesla to remove that suggestion that the HPWC purchased "with" the car would have a 4 year warranty. That is history, you can't order "with" the car and all HPWCs have only 1 year warranty.

What do you mean when you say you were the person responsible for getting Tesla to remove that suggestion?

 

[breser]

What do you mean when you say you were the person responsible for getting Tesla to remove that suggestion?

I assume they got Tesla to remove the comment to that effect from the online store.

Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters Wall Connector

That page used to say something about 4 years when purchased with the car.

Here is the evolution of the text.

July 2013: 1 year warranty regardless: Shop Tesla Gear High Power Wall Connector
September 2014: 4 year warranty with car, 1 year otherwise: Shop Tesla Gear Wall Connector
August 2015: 1 year warranty for over the counter and aftermarket online purchases: Tesla Accessories and Charging Adapters Wall Connector

Not sure when that last change happened since the wayback machine doesn't have any 2015 captures of the page. The new text is vague but probably means 1 year only for everyone now since they don't sell it with the cars anymore.

 

[Andyw2100]

I assume they got Tesla to remove the comment to that effect from the online store.

Ah, OK.

So you think he got Tesla to correct the website to be consistent with the policy that they had recently changed to. That makes sense.

I was reading it like somehow Tesla changed their policy based on something that had happened with him, but your interpretation seems more likely.

 

[ohmman]

I was reading it like somehow Tesla changed their policy based on something that had happened with him, but your interpretation seems more likely.

I read it the same way but agree, this makes more sense. I couldn't figure out why someone would argue for less warranty.