Annual license plate renewal fees - how much in your state?

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

I am all for paying my fair share for the roads, I just don't agree with the arbitrary 200+$ figure. I think the mileage driven for that year is how the tax should be accessed. Not to mention we are taxed on the power bill.

I understand your frustration. You have to remember the taxes paid on your electricity bill are not allocated to road funding and they are paid by everyone, including those people who drive gas cars and pay gas taxes. Also the $200 figure isn’t that arbitrary. According to an article in USA Today from February of this year, Georgia’s gas tax is 31.6 cents per gallon and the average GA driver travels 17,600 miles per year. If you use the average mpg of the current auto fleet which is 25 mpg, the math shows 17,600 miles divided by 25 mpg equals 704 gallons consumed per year times 31.6 cents per gallon equals $222 in gas taxes paid at the pump per year. That’s based on averages of course, so each driver will pay more or less based on their miles driven and fuel efficiency of their vehicle (typically heavier vehicles are less efficient and thus pay more in gas tax). But as you can see, the annual EV fee in GA is extremely fair when compared to the motor fuel taxes paid by the average driver of an average gas vehicle in the state.

 

[Proflig8tor]

GA is $233.78

You can not pay the $20 plate fee without paying the $212.78 Alternative Fuel Vehicle Fee

Compared to the fuel taxes on my guzzling E350 our taxes are double what other drivers in the State pay. We use our cars <10,000 miles a year on average. My 2004 Mercedes Wagon has 34,000 miles on it.

The $200 is completely arbitrary and was based on a lobbying effort by Koch funded Americans for Prosperity.

 

[ChrisH]

I understand your frustration. You have to remember the taxes paid on your electricity bill are not allocated to road funding and they are paid by everyone, including those people who drive gas cars and pay gas taxes. Also the $200 figure isn’t that arbitrary. According to an article in USA Today from February of this year, Georgia’s gas tax is 31.6 cents per gallon and the average GA driver travels 17,600 miles per year. If you use the average mpg of the current auto fleet which is 25 mpg, the math shows 17,600 miles divided by 25 mpg equals 704 gallons consumed per year times 31.6 cents per gallon equals $222 in gas taxes paid at the pump per year. That’s based on averages of course, so each driver will pay more or less based on their miles driven and fuel efficiency of their vehicle (typically heavier vehicles are less efficient and thus pay more in gas tax). But as you can see, the annual EV fee in GA is extremely fair when compared to the motor fuel taxes paid by the average driver of an average gas vehicle in the state.

How is it fair when the gas tax is essentially a per use tax where EV fees are flat fees? I’m in WA state and we pay $225 for having EVs. I drive 7500 miles a year. I would pay way less “gas tax” than $225 in a year.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

How is it fair when the gas tax is essentially a per use tax where EV fees are flat fees? I’m in WA state and we pay $225 for having EVs. I drive 7500 miles a year. I would pay way less “gas tax” than $225 in a year.

I guess you and @Proflig8tor didn't really read my post. I specifically said I was using averages. I specifically said if you drive more or less miles OR if your vehicle gets better or worse mpg then the results will vary. But until GA and other states can develop an EV user fee that fluctuates based on consumption (similar to the motor fuel tax) this seems to be a pretty fair way of taxing us to help pay for the roads which we are using. If you guys have a method that is more fair and equitable feel free to write your state reps with your proposition.

 

[StellarRat]

I understand your frustration. You have to remember the taxes paid on your electricity bill are not allocated to road funding and they are paid by everyone, including those people who drive gas cars and pay gas taxes. Also the $200 figure isn’t that arbitrary. According to an article in USA Today from February of this year, Georgia’s gas tax is 31.6 cents per gallon and the average GA driver travels 17,600 miles per year. If you use the average mpg of the current auto fleet which is 25 mpg, the math shows 17,600 miles divided by 25 mpg equals 704 gallons consumed per year times 31.6 cents per gallon equals $222 in gas taxes paid at the pump per year. That’s based on averages of course, so each driver will pay more or less based on their miles driven and fuel efficiency of their vehicle (typically heavier vehicles are less efficient and thus pay more in gas tax). But as you can see, the annual EV fee in GA is extremely fair when compared to the motor fuel taxes paid by the average driver of an average gas vehicle in the state.

In Oregon they are trying to charge per mile on EVs at the rate of a gas vehicle that only gets 20 mpg (I did the math.) How is that fair? Some guy in a Forester, Prius or Jetta TDI is going to pay far less than an EV. In fact, many ICE passenger cars now get way more than 25 mpg. It really irritates me I'm going to pay way more "tax" than an ICE. Fortunately the proposal is not yet law, but I've already written to my state Representative and Senator. I need more people to do the same. I don't mind paying my fair share, but I do mind paying far more than my fair share specially when I'm helping the environment.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

In Oregon they are trying to charge per mile on EVs at the rate of a gas vehicle that only gets 20 mpg (I did the math.) How is that fair? Some guy in a Forester, Prius or Jetta TDI is going to pay far less than an EV. In fact, many ICE passenger cars now get way more than 25 mpg. It really irritates me I'm going to pay way more "tax" than an ICE. Fortunately the proposal is not yet law, but I've already written to my state Representative and Senator. I need more people to do the same. I don't mind paying my fair share, but I do mind paying far more than my fair share specially when I'm helping the environment.

Glad you are writing your state reps. Complaining does nothing, taking action might help. I’m not in Oregon so I won’t say much about the plan other than they (like every other state) must find a way to tax EVs in order to pay for the roads we drive on, similar to the decades old motor fuel tax. 25 mpg is the fleet fuel economy average in America so that seems like a logical comparison to use (no idea why Oregon would use 20 mpg). IMO a special use sales tax would actually be the best way to go. I haven’t done the math to see what the rate would need to be, probably half a percent or something like that. A sales tax makes sense because the more you buy, the more you are using the roads by either driving to a store to make the purchase or by ordering online and having it delivered to your house in a vehicle that uses the roads.

 

[ChrisH]

I guess you and @Proflig8tor didn't really read my post. I specifically said I was using averages. I specifically said if you drive more or less miles OR if your vehicle gets better or worse mpg then the results will vary. But until GA and other states can develop an EV user fee that fluctuates based on consumption (similar to the motor fuel tax) this seems to be a pretty fair way of taxing us to help pay for the roads which we are using. If you guys have a method that is more fair and equitable feel free to write your state reps with your proposition.

how about a fee based on miles driven? They could have us go somewhere to show miles driven and have us pay the amount accordingly at the time renewal was due or something.

 

[Proflig8tor]

@EnrgyNDpndnce,

The fee is completely arbitrary. A study by the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) determined that the road damage caused by a single 18-wheeler was equivalent to the damage caused by 9,600 cars. (GAO: Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford)

In our view it is worth paying the tax to avoid funding the petrochemical industries' political action committees.

States Used to Help People Buy Electric Cars. Now They Punish Them for It.

 

[boaterva]

A note for those in Virginia subject to Personal Property tax: purchasing your car in the last quarter of the year helps a lot since you will pay PPT for the first ‘year’ for one quarter only on the full value then it will fall to a Kelly calculation which is much less in following years. Buy in January and you are screwed.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

@EnrgyNDpndnce,

The fee is completely arbitrary. A study by the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) determined that the road damage caused by a single 18-wheeler was equivalent to the damage caused by 9,600 cars. (GAO: Excessive Truck Weight: An Expensive Burden We Can No Longer Afford)

In our view it is worth paying the tax to avoid funding the petrochemical industries' political action committees.

States Used to Help People Buy Electric Cars. Now They Punish Them for It.

Nice mix of apples and mangos. When were we ever discussing 18 wheelers? This thread is about the taxes and registration fees for cars. Anyone with an ounce of rationality can read my post and see that there is definitely logic to the way the GA EV fee works as compared to the motor fuel tax paid by the average gas car driver. It is absolutely not arbitrary. You may not like paying it, and quite frankly I don’t like paying it (or any taxes for that matter) but it is necessary to fund road maintenance and construction and the fee seems fair when compared to what the average gas car driver pays.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

how about a fee based on miles driven? They could have us go somewhere to show miles driven and have us pay the amount accordingly at the time renewal was due or something.

Could work and may be what we eventually end up with. But government is very slow to change so I wouldn’t expect it anytime soon. Still think a sales tax is the most logical and transparent way to go.

 

[Proflig8tor]

EnrgyNDpndnce,

Exactly road maintenance - and who tears up the roads? That is why trucks are relevant to this discussion of fairness in the collection of revenue.

If based on energy consumption, the M3 SR+ would be somewhere between 113 and 130 MPGe. Put that in your calculations for the 7,500 miles we drive and you come up with around $30, not $230.

The punitive fee is the opposite of the earlier Georgia incentives. Its intent and effect is to dissuade people from buying EV's. It doubled our tax compared to our E Class. It is not fair. It is not based on any objective data, or use patterns. It is by definition of the term, ARBITRARY!

It was brought to us by the exact same lobbyists who are his year fighting public transport and connections to MARTA for the same reasons.

I prefer transportation policy be informed by objective data. There was nothing objective about the 2015 legislation which removed EV incentives and replaced them with a punitive tax.

 

[ChrisH]

Could work and may be what we eventually end up with. But government is very slow to change so I wouldn’t expect it anytime soon. Still think a sales tax is the most logical and transparent way to go.

sales tax how? How does that make any sense for road usage?

 

[MJB-CO]

In Colorado -
First Registration last year:
Ownership Tax 1,219.95
Title Fees 7.20
Sales/Use Tax 2,805.75
Bridge Safety Surcharge 18.00
Road Safety Surcharge 23.00
Reg Fees 149.79
Total Fees 4,222.59

Renewal this year:
License Fee 147.57
Ownership Tax 808.67
Total Fees 956.24

 

[ngogas]

Utah 305.00.

 

[Eclectic]

In Oregon they are trying to charge per mile on EVs at the rate of a gas vehicle that only gets 20 mpg (I did the math.) How is that fair? Some guy in a Forester, Prius or Jetta TDI is going to pay far less than an EV. In fact, many ICE passenger cars now get way more than 25 mpg. It really irritates me I'm going to pay way more "tax" than an ICE. Fortunately the proposal is not yet law, but I've already written to my state Representative and Senator. I need more people to do the same. I don't mind paying my fair share, but I do mind paying far more than my fair share specially when I'm helping the environment.

Well, taxes and other government fees aren't meant to be "fair". They are meant to transfer wealth from those who the government wants to make pay to those who the government wants to benefit. "Paying one's fair share" is a slogan without any basis in reality.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

EnrgyNDpndnce,

Exactly road maintenance - and who tears up the roads? That is why trucks are relevant to this discussion of fairness in the collection of revenue.

If based on energy consumption, the M3 SR+ would be somewhere between 113 and 130 MPGe. Put that in your calculations for the 7,500 miles we drive and you come up with around $30, not $230.

The punitive fee is the opposite of the earlier Georgia incentives. Its intent and effect is to dissuade people from buying EV's. It doubled our tax compared to our E Class. It is not fair. It is not based on any objective data, or use patterns. It is by definition of the term, ARBITRARY!

It was brought to us by the exact same lobbyists who are his year fighting public transport and connections to MARTA for the same reasons.

I prefer transportation policy be informed by objective data. There was nothing objective about the 2015 legislation which removed EV incentives and replaced them with a punitive tax.

No one else on this thread is talking about trucks so stop bringing them up to change the subject. Go start your own thread if you want to complain about how bad big rigs are. And then think about the fact that without them our consumer based economy would come crashing down around us.

MPGe is a measure of energy efficiency and has nothing to do with taxing a vehicle to pay for road maintenance. And the only way your EV fee “doubled your tax compared to your E Class” is if you drove far fewer than the average number of miles driven in GA which is slightly over 17k per year. I will remind you that in my original post I referenced the exact math that PROVES TO ANY RATIONAL PERSON that the EV fee is not arbitrary but in fact charges almost the exact same fee that the average GA driver will pay in motor fuel tax annually. As I have said numerous times, it is based on averages. The average mpg, the average miles driven annually, it’s the average. If your E Class got better mileage and/or you drove fewer miles than average then yes you will pay more. But the only reasonable way to convert a per gallon tax to an annual fee is to use averages. You can’t seem to grasp that or more likely just don’t want to.

Furthermore, your lack of understanding of the 2015 law has become completely transparent. I’m not saying it was perfect, but it did a number of good things. First, it linked the GA motor fuel tax to an index based on inflation and fuel economy, guaranteeing that tax would rise just a little each year so that our funding mechanism would perpetually keep up with changes in the value of a dollar and with the fleet fuel economy. Of course that only works as long as all cars buy gas and since EVs don’t, the legislature also came up with a way to tax EVs. Again not a perfect way, but a way. And, in order to gain the support of the Sierra Club, they decided to take the money collected from the EV fee and allocate it to,.... wait for it...PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. So your little rant above about the lobbyists fighting MARTA just cracked me up, because the very fee you are b!tching about actually funds public transportation in GA.

Have a great evening.

 

[Voltron_M3]

Nevada

First registration today. $802 for the year.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

sales tax how? How does that make any sense for road usage?

Good question. It takes some work to get there but hear me out on this. Sales taxes are levied on everything you buy, right? So how do you buy things? Well typically, you DRIVE to the store and purchase them. So you see, each time you pay sales tax you are using the roads. But wait, what about the internet? Well, when I order something off Amazon (or other sites) they deliver my goods to my home in a truck that drives on the roads. So again, I buy something, I use the roads (in one way or another) so I pay a tax that supports the roadway system.

I’ve had this conversation with several people, some agree some don’t, and that’s OK. I also have to admit I like sales taxes because they are transparent and because they give the taxpayer at least some control over how much tax he pays. The more I buy, the more tax I pay. If I save my money, I don’t pay taxes on that. Sales taxes are difficult to game (unlike our income tax system which is designed around social engineering) and those with more disposable income tend to pay far more in sales tax than those living on a shoe string budget.

One thing is for sure, our state governments need to start working on an alternative to the motor fuel tax because pretty soon there will be a lot of EVs on the road not buying any gas. Maybe it will be a flat, annual fee like GA and many other states have imposed. Maybe it will be a sales tax, or as you suggested a mileage based tax. The smart states will impose this fee on ALL VEHICLES not just EVs, and they will leave the motor fuel tax in place. That way those who continue to drive gas mobiles will be double taxed for a while which will encourage them to switch to EVs, and until they do the states will see an increase in tax revenue. This will only happen once EVs hit the tipping point on market dominance and most people start looking at gas cars the way most of us now look at cigarette smokers. Once gas cars become socially unacceptable the politicians will tax the fool out of them and not worry about it.

 

[ChrisH]

Good question. It takes some work to get there but hear me out on this. Sales taxes are levied on everything you buy, right? So how do you buy things? Well typically, you DRIVE to the store and purchase them. So you see, each time you pay sales tax you are using the roads. But wait, what about the internet? Well, when I order something off Amazon (or other sites) they deliver my goods to my home in a truck that drives on the roads. So again, I buy something, I use the roads (in one way or another) so I pay a tax that supports the roadway system.

I’ve had this conversation with several people, some agree some don’t, and that’s OK. I also have to admit I like sales taxes because they are transparent and because they give the taxpayer at least some control over how much tax he pays. The more I buy, the more tax I pay. If I save my money, I don’t pay taxes on that. Sales taxes are difficult to game (unlike our income tax system which is designed around social engineering) and those with more disposable income tend to pay far more in sales tax than those living on a shoe string budget.

One thing is for sure, our state governments need to start working on an alternative to the motor fuel tax because pretty soon there will be a lot of EVs on the road not buying any gas. Maybe it will be a flat, annual fee like GA and many other states have imposed. Maybe it will be a sales tax, or as you suggested a mileage based tax. The smart states will impose this fee on ALL VEHICLES not just EVs, and they will leave the motor fuel tax in place. That way those who continue to drive gas mobiles will be double taxed for a while which will encourage them to switch to EVs, and until they do the states will see an increase in tax revenue. This will only happen once EVs hit the tipping point on market dominance and most people start looking at gas cars the way most of us now look at cigarette smokers. Once gas cars become socially unacceptable the politicians will tax the fool out of them and not worry about it.

man I dunno. 10.3% sales tax already feels insane. So regressive too. Also, a ton of people that live in cities can walk to stores pretty easily. I will agree that most of us drive (or ride public transportation) places to buy things though.