Annual Service - is the "hardware upgrade" dream finally dead?

[epley]

I like to view the annual inspection and cost as insurance. It's ensuring my car is in top shape, that everything is in working order, and that I get all the service bulletins done in a timely fashion--like the road-hazard-destroying plate. If you are getting these things without a service agreement, count yourself lucky that Tesla is so generous: no other car manufacturer is going to fix all these things on their cars for free.

Again, that is under warranty and is not a hardware upgrade though the service plan.




Sorry, but IMO, a performance inspection, replacement of key fob batteries and windshield wipers does not equal even close to $600. Brakes hardly ever need replacement on the MS and tire rotations are provided under "goodwill" not the service plan.

 

[Haggy]

If you are getting some of those things with a service agreement, despite the fact that the service agreement doesn't specify that they are part of it, Tesla would be hard pressed to tell other owners that they can't have them. If Tesla never said you need a service agreement to get them or that you wouldn't get them without it, it comes down to warranty.

 

[invisik]

So the technie nerd in me wants the higher-resolution instrument panel screen.... My current screen is working fine. That's a hardware upgrade, and should not be super complicated to install (unlike adding ACC)..... they can even keep the old working part in stock for warranty replacement. Maybe I'll make this request the next time I'm in to start the conversation about what hardware upgrades means.

(screen discussion here, FYI http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ent-Panel-Display?highlight=screen+resolution )

-m

 

[redi]

I wonder what would happen if you asked for an ionizer (whatever that entails) or the updated turn/cruise stalk arrangement? Hardware improvements certainly. I also read the lingo about "hardware updates" before the "necessary" lawyer obfuscation was added.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Good point on the turn signal part -- it is "an improvement to an existing part" which should fall under "hardware upgrades". I'm due for my first service visit in a couple of thousand miles, I may ask them if this is a possible retrofit under the service plan. Same argument for the higher res screen, but is that just a drop-in replacement, or did anything else change, like the wiring harness or the video driver(s)? The ionizer is technically a new part, so that might not qualify, but might be the easiest part to retrofit. I think I'm really going to push for the turn signal retrofit under the service contract.

 

[apacheguy]

@Hank - Good luck. I tried to push for a significant hardware upgrade in my MS several months ago that would have fallen under the context of "an improvement to an existing part" and was turned down repeatedly. Even agreed to meet them halfway but was still turned down. If you are successful in your endeavor, then I will congratulate you and will hope it will set a precedent down the road. At the very least, maybe Tesla will finally fess up and define what exactly they mean by hardware upgrades.

 

[redi]

Good point on the turn signal part -- it is "an improvement to an existing part" which should fall under "hardware upgrades". I'm due for my first service visit in a couple of thousand miles, I may ask them if this is a possible retrofit under the service plan. Same argument for the higher res screen, but is that just a drop-in replacement, or did anything else change, like the wiring harness or the video driver(s)? The ionizer is technically a new part, so that might not qualify, but might be the easiest part to retrofit. I think I'm really going to push for the turn signal retrofit under the service contract.

Please report back on what you find Hank. The leadership at Tesla is entertaining, but also have a track record of being notorious "truth benders", unfortunately. The kindest term that comes to mind.

I really like my car and the company, but I also appreciate when a company or the Chairman and chief architect says something, they back it up with action, rather than spending the following years back-peddling and making excuses.

 

[omarsultan]

Do folks not read contracts before signing them? The service agreement is pretty simple and written in plain language. The salient points:

Tesla agrees to provide four regularly scheduled maintenance inspections at a Tesla Authorized ServiceCenter or by a Tesla Ranger (subject to certain exceptions, including, without limitation, that TeslaRanger service may not be immediately available in Your area) at the intervals (whichever occurs first)specified in the “Service” column of the Selection of Plan section of this Agreement.

The regularly scheduled maintenance inspections shall include the following (subject to change by Teslaat any time and without notice, in its sole discretion):

• Vehicle inspection;
• Replacement or repair at the time of inspection of normal maintenance items and wear and tear
  parts, excluding the Battery and tires;
• Wheel alignment*; and
• Tire rotation*.

​

A loaner vehicle will be provided to You if Your scheduled maintenance is being performed at a Tesla Authorized Service Center and Tesla estimates that it will take over four hours to complete. A loaner vehicle will not be provided for Tesla Ranger service.

The only think that has informally changed is the stipulation of milage intervals, now they are enforcing just the calendar interval so you cannot try to stretch the plan out to cover 8 years by only going in every two years.

There is no magic in the service agreement, all you are doing is saving a bit of money by pre-paying the cost of service. As folks have pointed out upstream, things like upgrades to existing HW, roadside assistance, etc are all actually covered by the warranty or the Extended Service Agreement.

I do agree with Amped Realtor that the wording on the website needs an overhaul, at best its ambiguous. That being said, web copy is written by marketing folks, contracts are written by lawyers--read your contracts.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The only think that has informally changed is the stipulation of milage intervals, now they are enforcing just the calendar interval so you cannot try to stretch the plan out to cover 8 years by only going in every two years.

And if you ask Scottsdale service about the above, they will tell you nothing has changed - the mileage stipulation still applies. I even forwarded an email that I received from Ownership stating, in writing, that the mileage stipulation has been lifted. Nicholas, the service manager in Scottsdale, responded to me in writing saying that Ownership was mistaken and apologized for the erroneous information. He said that the written word of the contracts apply in all circumstances and that we must adhere to the written restriction (time or miles, whichever occurs first).

Per Nicholas, a service agreement term cannot be changed via an email communication - the actual contract document would need to be changed.

So... now we can't even believe what we are told by Tesla Ownership in email and in writing. I wonder what the legal eagles here think about this?

 

[brianman]

There is no magic in the service agreement, all you are doing is saving a bit of money by pre-paying the cost of service. As folks have pointed out upstream, things like upgrades to existing HW, roadside assistance, etc are all actually covered by the warranty or the Extended Service Agreement.

Omar, they need to remove this from the website IMO:

Tesla Service includes
...
•Hardware upgrades

Tesla Service | Tesla Motors

This section of the page makes no reference to warranty or ESA.

 

[CarlK]

I never got the idea that you can have free hardware upgrade with or without any service contracts.

 

[brianman]

I never got the idea that you can have free hardware upgrade with or without any service contracts.

I have trouble with the word "free" here. I would use the word "included" since it's included as a bullet point on the web page describing what the Service Plan includes.

If the last bullet has no meaning, then they should remove it.
If the last bullet is not reflected in the actual contract, then they should remove it.

If it has meaning and they update the contract to address the oversight, then they should include some language elaborating on "hardware upgrades" vs "necessary hardware upgrades" vs. "not really, just kidding you only get batteries for the keyfob".

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. One could argue false or at least deceptive advertising, legally speaking. If not, then it's another failure of our legal system.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Any attorneys here wish to comment on Tesla's liability of advertising something it is not providing?

 

[markb1]

Per Nicholas, a service agreement term cannot be changed via an email communication - the actual contract document would need to be changed.

Hmm.. well, Tesla can certainly choose to give you more than they agreed to in the contract. They don't need any sort of communication to do that.

 

[redi]

@Hank

I was in a new S85 recently and noticed that in addition to the changed stalk arrangement on the left, the turn, cruise, and PRD stalks are redesigned (i.e. no longer straight sticks for lack of a better description) along with the orientation. I like the "upgraded" new arrangement much better. Not sure if this is upgraded hardware or not.

FWIW, the sun visors on the newer models are 4.75" wide - my car has the skinny version. Some would say that this is much improved and an upgrade.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Hmm.. well, Tesla can certainly choose to give you more than they agreed to in the contract. They don't need any sort of communication to do that.

Right, but I was specifically addressing the pre-paid service agreement. Many are proceeding on the notion that the mileage restriction was removed, but it was not. To be told that an email communication from Tesla telling that something is okay is NOT okay is concerning. I shouldn't be expected to be a lawyer. If I ask Tesla a question, and they give me an answer, are they not bound to the answer they just provided?

 

[HankLloydRight]

@Hank - Good luck. I tried to push for a significant hardware upgrade in my MS several months ago that would have fallen under the context of "an improvement to an existing part" and was turned down repeatedly.

What part?

Also, I've received conflicting info from my delivery guy (who was awesome) and the service manager. I bought an inventory car at 8k miles and the service plan. The delivery guy (who seems to be a Tesla encyclopedia and has been with the company for years) says that I need to bring it in at 12,000 miles or one year.. OTOH, the service manager says that the 12,000 mile counter starts when I got the car, so 8,000+12,000=20,000 mile mark. Which makes much more sense, because before selling an inventory car, they do a detailed inspection and repair anything that needs fixing before releasing the car. I'd have to imagine that this inspection is similar to, or better than, the annual inspection included in the plan. Since the actual warrantee also starts at 8k miles ( this is stated in the sales agreement), I can only assume the service manager is correct. So who to believe? I asked them both twice to confirm, and they did... the second time, I asked the service manager to give the delivery guy a call to let him know his information is not accurate.

- - - Updated - - -

@Hank

I was in a new S85 recently and noticed that in addition to the changed stalk arrangement on the left, the turn, cruise, and PRD stalks are redesigned (i.e. no longer straight sticks for lack of a better description) along with the orientation. I like the "upgraded" new arrangement much better. Not sure if this is upgraded hardware or not.

Well,I can only hope the "updated hardware" is a plug-and-play replacement of the old modules.. in which case, it's a good test case for "hardware upgrades." But if the mounting or wiring harness changed, that would be much harder to retrofit.

 

[breser]

Per Nicholas, a service agreement term cannot be changed via an email communication - the actual contract document would need to be changed.

So... now we can't even believe what we are told by Tesla Ownership in email and in writing. I wonder what the legal eagles here think about this?

The contract explicitly says that the agreement can only be amended with a written change signed by both parties, email or verbal statement don't count(see first paragraph of section K).

This Agreement and any work orders executed at the time of service constitute the entire agreement between You and Tesla with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersede all prior agreements, statements, promises, understandings and negotiations, whether written or oral, regarding the subject matter hereof, and any terms and conditions included on Tesla’s work orders, whenever delivered. This Agreement and any work order cannot be amended unless in writing and signed by duly authorized representatives of each party.

That clause probably makes any legal claim over the hardware changes from the website difficult to make as well.

 

[rcc]

Folks, everyone with a Model S *is* getting hardware upgrades - above and beyond what would be covered under warranty and above and above and beyond what every other manufacturer does via TSBs. I suppose it would be clearer if Tesla had TSBs and HUSBs (hardware upgrade service bulletins) but they don't. And frankly, they shouldn't.

Tesla seems to be drawing the line in cases where the cost to the company is thousands of dollars per car. Given that they have a finite supply of labor and parts, that seems reasonable to me.

P.S. - I for one am not expecting Tesla to upgrade our steering wheel stalks. I don't know how much those parts cost but I'm sure they're not cheap. Anyone seriously expecting that ... ok, I'm going to stop typing now.

 

[apacheguy]

What part?

Also, I've received conflicting info from my delivery guy (who was awesome) and the service manager. I bought an inventory car at 8k miles and the service plan. The delivery guy (who seems to be a Tesla encyclopedia and has been with the company for years) says that I need to bring it in at 12,000 miles or one year.. OTOH, the service manager says that the 12,000 mile counter starts when I got the car, so 8,000+12,000=20,000 mile mark. Which makes much more sense, because before selling an inventory car, they do a detailed inspection and repair anything that needs fixing before releasing the car. I'd have to imagine that this inspection is similar to, or better than, the annual inspection included in the plan. Since the actual warrantee also starts at 8k miles ( this is stated in the sales agreement), I can only assume the service manager is correct. So who to believe? I asked them both twice to confirm, and they did... the second time, I asked the service manager to give the delivery guy a call to let him know his information is not accurate.

a) HV Battery

b) So your DS said you are free to bring it in once a year regardless of miles or did he use the language "12,000 or once a year, which ever comes first"? If the latter then they are both incorrect. Shoot an email off to ownership and they will give you the ammo by telling you the mileage requirement has been waived. As someone mentioned up thread, they are only enforcing the calendar intervals.