Annual service price increased by 50%

[MsElectric]

Just as a point of reference:
AAA does an annual survey of the actual cost to own and drive a car.
For 2015, average annual maintenance cost (for factory recommended maintenance) was $766.
(Total cost for a large sedan was $10,649 which includes depreciation, fuel, finance, license, tires, etc.)
Annual Cost to Own and Operate a Vehicle Falls to $8,698, Finds AAA | AAA NewsRoom

I am sorry but that $766 average annual maintenance fee for a car in 2015 is complete BS. Perhaps that what you pay if you go to the dealer and tell them you are a clueless sucker and to bill away as they please

On years that require a minor service, the expense in servicing both of our premium German cars is barely $250 a year. Some years it is closer to $400 and about every 4 years it is about $850. But we are talking about a vastly more complicated ICE.

 

[mspohr]

I am sorry but that $766 average annual maintenance fee for a car in 2015 is complete BS. Perhaps that what you pay if you go to the dealer and tell them you are a clueless sucker and to bill away as they please

On years that require a minor service, the expense in servicing both of our premium German cars is barely $250 a year. Some years it is closer to $400 and about every 4 years it is about $850. But we are talking about a vastly more complicated ICE.

The AAA survey reports what real people pay (and dealers charge) for recommended maintenance. You may get by with less by DIY or skipping stuff.

 

[MsElectric]

The AAA survey reports what real people pay (and dealers charge) for recommended maintenance. You may get by with less by DIY or skipping stuff.

Even without any DIY I fail to see how that average annual maintenance cost of $766 has any basis in reality for 2015.

Most modern ICE cars, especially the premiums cars, have really cleaned up their act when it comes to service. Many only require service once a year and on most years it amounts to little more than an oil change. This is why many premium car manufacturers now include scheduled maintenance for free when you buy their cars -- it is because the cost is so low. Some premium German car manufacturers are now even starting to include free scheduled maintenance even for their CPO cars.

 

[mspohr]

Even without any DIY I fail to see how that average annual maintenance cost of $766 has any basis in reality for 2015.

Most modern ICE cars, especially the premiums cars, have really cleaned up their act when it comes to service. Many only require service once a year and on most years it amounts to little more than an oil change. This is why many premium car manufacturers now include scheduled maintenance for free when you buy their cars -- it is because the cost is so low. Some premium German car manufacturers are now even starting to include free scheduled maintenance even for their CPO cars.

You may not believe it but this is real data,not somebody's anecdotal impression.

 

[labfm]

You may not believe it but this is real data,not somebody's anecdotal impression.

Where is the real data AAA used? Lmao. I'll wait for you to provide the data....

In addition, you have no idea what their metric "maintenance" means.
(1) Is it only annual manufacturer's recommended service? (which is what we're discussing here from Tesla).
(2) Does it include total maintenance costs per year, which will include non-scheduled maintenance work? Keep in mind that the majority of american's don't own new cars. There are millions of old cars that require pricey, non-scheduled maintenance work.
(3) In their own description, AAA says that "maintenance" also includes the costs of extended warranty.

So using that AAA number is simply not an apples-to-apples comparison. Even if the metric was exactly as Tesla's (annual manufacturer recommended service), it's ICE vs Electric. No way the costs should even be comparable.

 

[mspohr]

Where is the real data AAA used? Lmao. I'll wait for you to provide the data....

In addition, you have no idea what their metric "maintenance" means.
(1) Is it only annual manufacturer's recommended service? (which is what we're discussing here from Tesla).
(2) Does it include total maintenance costs per year, which will include non-scheduled maintenance work? Keep in mind that the majority of american's don't own new cars. There are millions of old cars that require pricey, non-scheduled maintenance work.
(3) In their own description, AAA says that "maintenance" also includes the costs of extended warranty.

So using that AAA number is simply not an apples-to-apples comparison. Even if the metric was exactly as Tesla's (annual manufacturer recommended service), it's ICE vs Electric. No way the costs should even be comparable.

I can understand that you don't want to believe the data but AAA is a very respected organization which has been collecting this data for 65 years. They have a sound methodology so that they can track costs over time and inform their members. If you have questions about the data, you can contact them and I am sure they will provide additional information on their methodology and the reliability of their data.
Regarding "Maintenance", they say:
"Maintenance costs include retail parts and labor for normal, routine maintenance as specified by the vehicle manufacturer. Sales tax is included."
Tires are covered in a separate line item (1.15 cents per mile).
They calculate average costs over five years for a new car.
Sorry you don't like the message but please don't attack the messenger.

 

[taurusking]

This is ridiculous $900 for a service...Tesla should revert back to their original price of $600

 

[labfm]

I can understand that you don't want to believe the data but AAA is a very respected organization which has been collecting this data for 65 years. They have a sound methodology so that they can track costs over time and inform their members. If you have questions about the data, you can contact them and I am sure they will provide additional information on their methodology and the reliability of their data.
Regarding "Maintenance", they say:
"Maintenance costs include retail parts and labor for normal, routine maintenance as specified by the vehicle manufacturer. Sales tax is included."
Tires are covered in a separate line item (1.15 cents per mile).
They calculate average costs over five years for a new car.
Sorry you don't like the message but please don't attack the messenger.

I'm not attacking any messenger. You brought up their data, yet you have no access to the data they use. You just assume their data is good because it's a respected organization (whatever that means).
I see you also conveniently left out the part in their own description that says they include the cost of extended warranties.

In today's world where there's backroom deals and negotiations, money passing hands e.t.c.., it pays to be a little more discerning about "conclusions" being drawn without the underlying data and assumptions. I mean, you literally have no idea how the data was collected, when it was collected, what was their sample size, what are the actual data points (surveys of customers or of businesses??) e.t.c. but reference it like it's gospel.

Quite frankly, this data is as good as or even worse than a forum poll here of users stating what their annual ICE maintenance costs were.

 

[mspohr]

I'm not attacking any messenger. You brought up their data, yet you have no access to the data they use. You just assume their data is good because it's a respected organization (whatever that means).
I see you also conveniently left out the part in their own description that says they include the cost of extended warranties.

In today's world where there's backroom deals and negotiations, money passing hands e.t.c.., it pays to be a little more discerning about "conclusions" being drawn without the underlying data and assumptions. I mean, you literally have no idea how the data was collected, when it was collected, what was their sample size, what are the actual data points (surveys of customers or of businesses??) e.t.c. but reference it like it's gospel.

Quite frankly, this data is as good as or even worse than a forum poll here of users stating what their annual ICE maintenance costs were.

I can understand you don't like the message but that's a poor excuse to attack the data and the organization.

 

[jaguar36]

Keep in mind that service prices for most automakers vary significantly from location to location. Service prices in LA for example are much higher than in less expensive areas. Tesla's prices are fixed thourgh out.

The bigger issue is that Tesla does everything possible to prevent 3rd party and DIY service so you have no alternative to paying Tesla's crazy service prices.

Its one thing to rake you over the coals for service, but then they have the gall to brag about how EVs require less maintenance, that's what really pisses me off.

 

[Max*]

Its one thing to rake you over the coals for service, but then they have the gall to brag about how EVs require less maintenance, that's what really pisses me off.

Is there a recent brag about this? I don't recall.

Everyone (myself including) brings this point up, but from what I remember, this was only stated years ago to never be repeated again.

 

[Cyclone]

Are you saying $600 total or per maintenance or repair?

In December 2015, my 2006 Toyota 4Runner had a grand total (excluding tires) of repairs & service totaling = $1,700. Then I lost a fuel injector in February, so today I'm at $2,800. Add in tires and I'm at $3,950.

If I had the inspections done time or mileage, whichever comes first, at 9.5 years when my Tesla is the same age as the 4Runner, I would have shelled out $5,400 (not including tires) with 9 * $600. The 4Runner at 93k miles is only 8/32 through the tires bought at 53k miles and the prior set were the OEMs. The Tesla at 14k miles is already at 8/32 of its tires, so adding in tire costs would actually hurt the "value" #s of the Tesla.

Now granted, the Tesla is a premium car and the 4Runner is a Toyota, but it was supposed to be a simpler car when it was first touted by Elon. The 4Runner is roughly 50% of the Tesla service costs and if you just look at 9 years instead of 9.5 to cover the recent "major failure", it would be about 30%.

It is what it is, but (for me) the Tesla is nowhere need as efficient to maintain as my ICE.


P.S. - The 4Runner is 99% serviced at Toyota dealerships. The only stuff not done there are alignments (lifetime elsewhere), rotations (lifetime elsewhere), and the brake job two years ago (would have been another $175 at the dealership over what I paid).

 

[Max*]

I would have shelled out $7,100 (not including tires) with 9 * $600.

Shouldn't 9*$600 = $5,400?

Nevermind, I got it.

 

[Cyclone]

Shouldn't 9*$600 = $5,400?

Nevermind, I got it.

Wow. I must have had one serious brain fart. Editing above to fix that! Thanks Max! :smile:

 

[Max*]

Wow. I must have had one serious brain fart. Editing above to fix that!

I assumed you added that (cost of maintenance Tesla) to the $1,700 in repairs (Rav4) to get to $7,100?

 

[Cyclone]

I assumed you added that (cost of maintenance Tesla) to the $1,700 in repairs (Rav4) to get to $7,100?

I must not have hit the clear key in Calc after adding up the 4Runner cost and then do the Tesla calc.

 

[jaguar36]

In December 2015, my 2006 Toyota 4Runner had a grand total (excluding tires) of repairs & service totaling = $1,700. Then I lost a fuel injector in February, so today I'm at $2,800. Add in tires and I'm at $3,950.

If I had the inspections done time or mileage, whichever comes first, at 9.5 years when my Tesla is the same age as the 4Runner, I would have shelled out $5,400 (not including tires) with 9 * $600. The 4Runner at 93k miles is only 8/32 through the tires bought at 53k miles and the prior set were the OEMs. The Tesla at 14k miles is already at 8/32 of its tires, so adding in tire costs would actually hurt the "value" #s of the Tesla.

You're combining repairs and service in your comparison there. We are only talking about maintenance here, so that would just be the cost of oil changes, spark plugs, filters and the like on the 4Runner.

The Tesla could easily blow that number out of the water if in year 6 you need a new door handle or something.

Tires are a whole other matter, but Tesla doesn't force you to buy tires from them.

 

[Cyclone]

You're combining repairs and service in your comparison there. We are only talking about maintenance here, so that would just be the cost of oil changes, spark plugs, filters and the like on the 4Runner.

The Tesla could easily blow that number out of the water if in year 6 you need a new door handle or something.

Tires are a whole other matter, but Tesla doesn't force you to buy tires from them.

The 4Runner has only had 3 repairs in its entire lifetime were one radio replace due to dead pixel at one-month of ownership (done under warranty) and a front bumper replacement when a car hit my parked car in front of an apartment, neither of which are included in the above figures. So take out the $1,100 repair of the fuel injector and you are left with the $1,700 for services outlined in the service schedule provided in the owner's manual (or $1,600 if the 12v battery isn't in the schedule - drove the Tesla today). So the 4Runner comes out way ahead. The prior 4Runner never had any repair (sold at 7 years old), the Corolla never had any non-accident repair (totaled at 10 years old), and the Lexus IS has never had any non-accident repair (currently 5 years old).

 

[taurusking]

Is there anything we as owners do about this other than complain? :wink:

 

[Cyclone]

Is there anything we as owners do about this other than complain? :wink:

"Thank you for spreading reputation". That is an option lol