Annual service price increased by 50%

[tstafford]

There's a lot of talk about brake fluid in this thread. Who the heck needs brakes when you have regen? I removed all components of my "traditional" brakes to reduce weight and make my car super-Ludicrous.

 

[sorka]

Reading random posts on mechanic sites, it seems that the problem with brake fluid is that it absorbs moisture over time which can lead to hydrolock and corrosion. Most manufacturers recommended changes at two or three years (but GM recommends 150,000 miles).Tesla brake use is very light because of regeneration so you should be able to go several years before change.

There is no reason to change brake fluid until it's necessary. I no longer follow mileage or time limits. I change it when the moisture content exceeds 1% or copper exceeds 100 PPM. 200 PPM is the standard.

My 8 year old Prius has it's original brake fluid and it tests out at < 1% moisture and still 0 ppm. It has 218K miles on it with 85% of the original brake pads left.

 

[liuping]

It would be nice if they would actually update their documentation to say this. From Service plans | Tesla Motors

If I drive 25,000 miles in a year, do I need 2 inspections? How would that apply to the 4 year service plan?
The mileage and time period both prompt the service interval. If you drive 25,000 miles in 1 year, you’ll want to have your car inspected twice. If you drive 6,250 miles in a year, you’ll want to have Tesla vehicle inspected on the year anniversary of ownership.
Note: Tesla recommends that Annual Service Inspections be performed within 1,000 miles or 30 days of the specified maintenance intervals for the selected Plan.

How often do I need to bring my Tesla Vehicle in for maintenance service?
We recommend that you bring your Tesla vehicle into the nearest Service Center for maintenance service every 12,500 miles or once a year (whichever comes first). Please use our Find Us page to find a Service Center near you.

Unfortunately, that is the updated wording.

They have completely backed away from the "it's ok to bring it in once a year" thing by updating the FAQ with that specific question asked and answered.

Previously they had communicated via email that once a year was okay, but that was never reflected in the contract, or on the website.

 

[mspohr]

This is the correct answer for brake fluid specifically - brake fluid is hygroscopic (attracts moisture), and adding moisture to the mix lowers the boiling point of brake fluid significantly. This is significant because when compressible gas is introduced into a hydraulic system like vehicle brakes, brake pedal movement will first compress the gas, then apply force to the brake pads. From a driver's perspective, the pedal gets soft and the brakes become much less effective - not so much fun in a 5,000 pound car.

Yes, there are very few conditions under which a Tesla driver would use the brakes heavily (track time or incredibly aggressive highway driving are about all I can think of), but adding in corrosion due to the moisture in the system, it's still a good idea to have brake fluid flushed every 2 years or so. That's the schedule I stick to with my daily driver vehicle - my track car gets at least 1 full flush per year, since the likelihood of boiling the fluid is much higher, and has a much greater consequence at 130MPH versus highway speed.

GM's recommended 150k interval may be partially influenced by the fact that their vehicles still use DOT3 fluid. DOT3 both has a significantly lower boiling point, and is much less hygroscopic than DOT4, DOT5.1, and other performance, non-silicone based brake fluids. Long story short, it's less of a big deal. Tesla, German manufacturers, and some others (sometimes vehicle specific) have jumped on using DOT4 or DOT5.1, and the maintenance schedules for those vehicles is accelerated. BMW recommends a brake fluid flush every 2 years as well, if I'm not mistaken. Even though Teslas may not use the hydraulic brakes very often, it's still worth following the 2 year recommendation, IMO - it's a safety item, one of those things you want to be ready to use when the need arises. Who knows when you'll need to flee from the next Bond villain driving an ICE Jaguar? :biggrin:

Thanks for this information.
I was wondering about mileage. If you drive 25,000 miles a year, can you still wait 2 years to change brake fluid?

 

[brucet999]

I was wondering if the brake fluid and battery coolant deteriorate based on time or mileage?

Battery coolant degradation would be more dependent on mileage than time; more specifically charging/discharging hours.

 

[NewCow]

and service is not a profit center?

Seems that's $200 for battery coolant replacement
Perhaps they got it mixed up with SpaceX stuff

They're "Service and other" gross margin last year was 1.9%...

Source: I'm an equity analyst and here's the 10-K: tsla-10k_20151231.htm

 

[FlatSix911]

What is your test method?

There is no reason to change brake fluid until it's necessary. I no longer follow mileage or time limits. I change it when the moisture content exceeds 1% or copper exceeds 100 PPM. 200 PPM is the standard.

My 8 year old Prius has it's original brake fluid and it tests out at < 1% moisture and still 0 ppm. It has 218K miles on it with 85% of the original brake pads left.

 

[Max*]

Can't make everyone happy. People complained that the odd service years should be cheaper, since Tesla isn't doing any fluid changes, Tesla listened and made them cheaper while making the even ones more expensive, now people are complaining that the even years are more expensive

 

[mspohr]

What is your test method?

It looks like there are two ways to test brake fluid. Moisture and copper. Moisture can be tested with this,
Amazon.com: Brake Fluid Tester - calibrated for DOT 4 brake fluids: Automotive
Copper with this,
Amazon.com: Phoenix Systems (3003-B) Brake Fluid Test Strips, 2 Strips Per Package, Reveals Brake Fluid Condition: Automotive

 

[dhrivnak]

Unfortunately from my view $600/is more than I have ever spent on an ICE car in 40 years of driving. The sole exception was in a 20 year old truck after pulling a heavy load while building the house I had to rebuild the transmission. Even then that was less than 2 years of Tesla maintenance. And I am talking maintenance and repairs and every vehicle was kept over 100,000 miles

 

[mspohr]

Unfortunately from my view $600/is more than I have ever spent on an ICE car in 40 years of driving. The sole exception was in a 20 year old truck after pulling a heavy load while building the house I had to rebuild the transmission. Even then that was less than 2 years of Tesla maintenance. And I am talking maintenance and repairs and every vehicle was kept over 100,000 miles

Are you saying $600 total or per maintenance or repair?

 

[MsElectric]

Can't make everyone happy. People complained that the odd service years should be cheaper, since Tesla isn't doing any fluid changes, Tesla listened and made them cheaper while making the even ones more expensive, now people are complaining that the even years are more expensive

I guess what people are saying is that $600 was more than enough for the max service cost of an EV that lacks a transmission, transfer case, engine requiring oil changes, or an emission control system along with all the other mechanical linkages. The premise of EVs is that they require substantially less service maintenance than an ICE. So the service fee should not be more or the same than an ICE but it should be less. This is not the case with Tesla.

For years 2 and 6, the only major task being performed is the brake flush and some feel $700 is an exorbitant cost for that when the air filer, key fob batteries, and wipers can be replaced for around $100 or so. Even assuming the "inspections" are worth $100, some are saying that $500 is excessive for a brake fluid flush. Even more so now that we know they don't actually include the alignment as a part of the service like they used to.

For years 4 and 8 the tasks of consequence are the battery fluid flush and the brake fluid flush and again some feel $900 is an exorbitant fee for that service as well given the rest barely amounts to $100. I am not the most capable person but even I can replace the wipers, key fob battery and the cabin filter in my car and I've always done these simple maintenance items on my own.

Would Tesla allow you to do the key fob battery, cabin air filter, and the wipers on your own and just charge you for the fluid flushes? That would make the service cost a lot more reasonable. As a point of reference all car dealers I've dealt with were happy to let me do certain service items on my own and charge me for just the fluid flushes.

 

[Max*]

I guess what people are saying is that $600 was more than enough for the max service cost of an EV that lacks a transmission, transfer case, engine requiring oil changes, or an emission control system along with all the other mechanical linkages. The premise of EVs is that they require substantially less service maintenance than an ICE. So the service fee should not be more or the same than an ICE but it should be less. This is not the case with Tesla.

For years 2 and 6, the only major task being performed is the brake flush and some feel $700 is an exorbitant cost for that when the air filer, key fob batteries, and wipers can be replaced for around $100 or so. Even assuming the "inspections" are worth $100, some are saying that $500 is excessive for a brake fluid flush. Even more so now that we know they don't actually include the alignment as a part of the service like they used to.

For years 4 and 8 the tasks of consequence are the battery fluid flush and the brake fluid flush and again some feel $900 is an exorbitant fee for that service as well given the rest barely amounts to $100. I am not the most capable person but even I can replace the wipers, key fob battery and the cabin filter in my car and I've always done these simple maintenance items on my own.

Would Tesla allow you to do the key fob battery, cabin air filter, and the wipers on your own and just charge you for the fluid flushes? That would make the service cost a lot more reasonable. As a point of reference all car dealers I've dealt with were happy to let me do certain service items on my own and charge me for just the fluid flushes.

I'm not arguing that the price is ludicrous, I'm just saying that lots of people had a valid complaint that the price is equal when Tesla does different things, Tesla changed it, and now people are complaining that Tesla changed the price structure. Well duh, you asked for it!


I never said the price is reasonable, I don't think it is, and I haven't decided if I'll be coming in yearly or not...

 

[mspohr]

Just as a point of reference:
AAA does an annual survey of the actual cost to own and drive a car.
For 2015, average annual maintenance cost (for factory recommended maintenance) was $766.
(Total cost for a large sedan was $10,649 which includes depreciation, fuel, finance, license, tires, etc.)
Annual Cost to Own and Operate a Vehicle Falls to $8,698, Finds AAA | AAA NewsRoom

 

[dhrivnak]

Are you saying $600 total or per maintenance or repair?

Both I do my own maintenance and maintenanceis less than $150/year. And it takes very little time. I use synthetic oil for about $30/change. $55 for an air filter and transmission filter and fluid. New plugs are like $25 and the last me about 90,000 miles.

 

[labfm]

Service seems to be a huge ripoff tbh.

 

[ChrisPDX]

Figures they would do this. I completely skipped all annual services because they were effectively inspections. My plan is to wait until right before the warranty ends and get an inspection done with all fluid flushes (that way anything I may have never noticed can be addressed under warranty). At 46k miles now and no warranty/vehicle issues with $0 spent (well, maybe $150 for my own wiper blades and air filters). So what was going to cost me just $600, is now $900. I guess too many other owners were like me so Tesla decided to close that loophole and charge me more for the more-then-just-inspection services. I can't blame them, just sucks I now have to spend so much. One of the few times where driving more would have saved me $300.

 

[eloder]

My $14000 MSRP ICE car cost $400 a year in annual maintenance at 10k miles/year. If I drove 50k miles a year, my cost would be well over 5x that.

I think you're getting a ridiculously good steal on maintenance costs, especially compared to gas cars.

If you're unhappy, just move back to an ICE and enjoy the 5x+ maintenance costs.

 

[sorka]

217K miles on 8 year old Prius. Just over $500 total for all oil / filter changes, engine and inverter coolant changes, spark plugs, engine air filters and cabin air filters. Doesn't include gas and tires or wiper fluid. Brakes have never been touched. Should an electric car be even less expensive to maintain?

 

[labfm]

My $14000 MSRP ICE car cost $400 a year in annual maintenance at 10k miles/year. If I drove 50k miles a year, my cost would be well over 5x that.

I think you're getting a ridiculously good steal on maintenance costs, especially compared to gas cars.

If you're unhappy, just move back to an ICE and enjoy the 5x+ maintenance costs.

Ok buddy. If you're paying $400/yr on a 14K car, you're being fleeced. End of story.