Anonymous gross income poll of M3 reservation holders

[SageBrush]

When we get to the point where all cars have mini-fusion engines that power our houses we can talk again...until then a car (ice and ev) is just another thing you put money, time and energy into and then toss away once it`s gotten old. Just because EVs are theoretically more efficient doesn`t make them any less consumer products.....

<<sigh...>>
An EV has social benefits compared to ICE:

Markedly reduced noise pollution
Done right, markedly reduced carbon and tailpipe emissions

You can see what is similar but you are blind to the differences

 

[Phrixotrichus]

<<sigh...>>
An EV has social benefits compared to ICE:

Markedly reduced noise pollution
Done right, markedly reduced carbon and tailpipe emissions

You can see what is similar but you are blind to the differences

A cpu from 2017 uses less power than a 2013 one and still has more performance, does that make it less of a consumer product? No!
Is a near silent v6/v8 mercedes any less of a consumer product than a roaring mustang? No!
Just because newer/different versions of a product may be more efficient or enhanced in other ways it doesn`t change its nature.

You buy it, you use it, you toss it away.

 

[zer0cool]

Is it possible to change the ranges... Need to combine the lower ranges and introduce higher ranges.

 

[Petra]

You buy it, you use it, you toss it away.

That describes practically all physical property... so, what exactly is your point again?

 

[Max*]

Someone making $150k could be living paycheck to paycheck, while someone making $50k could be in a much better financial stance.

It's not only about income, it's not only about net worth, it's not only about spending habits, it's some complicated combination of all of the above.

 

[SageBrush]

Someone making $150k could be living paycheck to paycheck, while someone making $50k could be in a much better financial stance.

It's not only about income, it's not only about net worth, it's not only about spending habits, it's some complicated combination of all of the above.

Very true, and more.
The age of the buyer and future obligations or job prospects/security play important roles.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

That describes practically all physical property... so, what exactly is your point again?

Ask that Mr SageBrush, because this obviously doesn`t count for EVs in his mind.

 

[SageBrush]

Ask that Mr SageBrush, because this obviously doesn`t count for EVs in his mind.

You are still missing the point.
All products are property, but not all property are the same.

As I said, you point out the obvious similarity but are blind to the differences

 

[Phrixotrichus]

You are still missing the point.
All products are property, but not all property are the same.

As I said, you point out the obvious similarity but are blind to the differences

And you ignore the 95% similarities and only point out the differences......an EV is still a car. a means for personal transportation which got versions in all price categories, a consumer product. And , to get back to the original point, putting yourself in debt for an EV is exactly as stupid as it would be for an ICE.....

can`t believe we`re actually having this "discussion" at all.
Being stupid about finances doesn`t suddenly look better if the outcome is an EV instead of an ICE.......

 

[SageBrush]

And you ignore the 95% similarities and only point out the differences......an EV is still a car. a means for personal transportation which got versions in all price categories, a consumer product. And , to get back to the original point, putting yourself in debt for an EV is exactly as stupid as it would be for an ICE.....

It is the same to you because you ignore the environmental differences.

I do not; and since those environmental differences have both personal and community COSTS, you are engaging in fool's accounting in thinking you know the debt burden.

 

[geometro]

The point is that people stretching to buy a Tesla are no different than the populace at large in terms of their money management; though at least they are making a smarter car choice

Understood and agreed... I’m still flummoxed by that whole decision process to stretch for a depreciating “asset”. When I made $50k, my car choices were all in the used car section and sub-$15k.

 

[SageBrush]

Understood and agreed... I’m still flummoxed by that whole decision process to stretch for a depreciating “asset”. When I made $50k, my car choices were all in the used car section and sub-$15k.

Add them to the rather larger list of people buying $20-$40k cars that get 20 mpg a gallon.

As for depreciation, it only comes into play when the car is sold. The purchase price can be less important than the combined costs of fuel and flipping behavior. People who actually want to minimize car TCO do the following:

1. Maintain the car DIY
2. Keep it until repair costs are exhorbitant
3. Buy a reliable brand
4. Buy a model that minimizes fuel costs

Car purchase price is in there too somewhere, but it should be viewed in context.

 

[BinaryField]

The more I float around luxury car forums, the more I see people talking about cars as assets, worrying about depreciation. Maybe I have a serious lack of financial knowledge, but I don't understand this. A car is a consumable, functional object to me. Even if my current car's paper value turned to zero tomorrow, I wouldn't care, because it still performs its duty regardless.

Can someone please educate me?

 

[FlyingCookie]

The more I float around luxury car forums, the more I see people talking about cars as assets, worrying about depreciation. Maybe I have a serious lack of financial knowledge, but I don't understand this. A car is a consumable, functional object to me. Even if my current car's paper value turned to zero tomorrow, I wouldn't care, because it still performs its duty regardless.

Can someone please educate me?

Most people driving luxury vehicles trade their car in after 2 years because they want to stay at the cutting edge of automotive technology.

I drive my cars into the ground for work, so every 3-4 years I do trade my cars in, but I don't expect much out of them, and I'm usually upside down on them... But I've also drivin 100K miles for work, so it's all okay.

 

[Canuck]

Being stupid about finances doesn`t suddenly look better if the outcome is an EV instead of an ICE.......

I think it's stupid to pay $100k on a vehicle too but I did because I wanted to assist in accelerating Tesla's mission because I'm concerned about my kid's future. And it's not about the money for me. I worked hard and warned every penny and I'm spending my kid's inheritance for their own good.

Call me stupid and say it's the same as buying a $100k ICE. I'd call you "thick" if you still fail to see the difference.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

I think it's stupid to pay $100k on a vehicle too but I did because I wanted to assist in accelerating Tesla's mission because I'm concerned about my kid's future. And it's not about the money for me. I worked hard and warned every penny and I'm spending my kid's inheritance for their own good.

Call me stupid and say it's the same as buying a $100k ICE. I'd call you "thick" if you still fail to see the difference.

I´d not call you stupid. "Hippie" is more what comes to my mind.

I´m not green at all, I´m simply interested in the new tech and the elimination of the 2000+ moving parts with limited lifetime in current ICEs, whatever the ecological advantages or disadvantages might be.
Prio 1 for me though is AP. I´d even buy another ICE if that meant getting lvl 4+ automation earlier.

 

[SageBrush]

"Hippie" is more what comes to my mind.

Then you know as much about "hippies" as you do environmentalism.

Hippies did flout convention but it was in the context of rejecting responsibility towards others. The movement started as a rejection of war they did not agree with and spiraled into narcissism.
Canuck is just the opposite -- he spends money to improve everybody's lot in life.

You reject any notion that you have a responsibility to leave this Earth no dirtier than you find it. Ideologically, not so far away from the self-centered, narcisstic hippie. You cannot see it though because of your different consumption patterns. And there is one other difference: hippies tended to be pleasant.

 

[Hertog_Martin]

I earn 42k Euro in The Netherlands before taxes, which is 50k in USD.

Why I would spent annual salary, more if counting net income, on a model 3?

Well my current and first car from 1999 cost €1000 to buy and will sell for 500 after being run for two years. So around €20 per month spent.

Insurance, €40pm
Road assistance €10pm
Road tax €20pm
Fuel costs €210 pm for 20000km / 12.500 miles.
Avg Maintenance €65pm

Total monthly costs: €365

Tesla M3 will cost me 42k to buy, expecting to sell at 20k after 5 years, costing €365pm

Insurance €60pm
Road assistance €10pm
Road tax €0 for electric cars
Fuel costs €60pm
Avg maintenance €50pm? No idea yet what would be covered under warranty yet.

€180 pm extra over current car would be something I can afford.

Let me know if you see serious oversights

 

[DarthPierce]

Location, location, location...

In Georgia you can buy a 2000 square foot home on 2+ acres for around $100,000. What would that cost in California?

Dan

Land you want, eh?

I can't speak for California, but for the Seattle area:

Took me a bit of effort to come up with anything near 2 acres, but I found a 9 parcel block of (now) condemned homes that's about 1.6 acres and ~150 blocks from downtown, just outside the city limits, it's just 7.7 million.

 

[206er]

Land you want, eh?

I can't speak for California, but for the Seattle area:

Took me a bit of effort to come up with anything near 2 acres, but I found a 9 parcel block of (now) condemned homes that's about 1.6 acres and ~150 blocks from downtown, just outside the city limits, it's just 7.7 million.

Really!? That seems like a huge block of land (Shoreline, Sea-Tac, or Burien?) Developer will probably buy it, throw up a micro community of modern townhomes and list them for $1.5M each...