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Another dumb idea, pedestrian low speed noise makers.

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by timk225, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Beckler

    Beckler Member

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    By 2022 the law will require the noise to play on the vehicle's interior speakers as well. This allows the driver to become accustomed to it. Don't worry, you can choose the volume: high or max.
     
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  2. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    That's right up there with BMW Active Sound that plays V8 motor sounds inside the cabin.
     
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  3. eloder

    eloder Active Member

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    #83 eloder, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    My last EV sounded like the Star Trek impulse engine.

    Trust me, even with cool noises that pedestrian noisemaker gets old fast. Especially because you can hear it in the cabin. Even more so when you have the windows open and are trying to enjoy a nice quiet EV drive.

    This also doesn't help at all with pedestrians because--unsurprisingly--the noisemaker doesn't *sound* like a car in the slightest. Nobody pays attention to you in parking lots with a noisemaker because you are easily mistaken for some kid playing a game on their smartphone or an alarm going off at a distant business. Those who don't notice you now still won't notice you in an EV, and I think this is a very huge point that supporters of this rule miss. With every automaker able to choose their own noise, the problem is even worse. Engines all sound pretty distinct, but 300 different high-pitched whines can all easily be mistaken for other things.

    It sucks that the city core of the future won't be quiet, but instead will sound like a 1980s computer lab. Ugh. I think I'd prefer engine noise because at least it's low pitched.

    I'll be dead honest that this law was one of the reasons I decided to stretch for a mid-range instead of waiting for a short range.

    It's not. A noisemaker is one of the many things that makes other non-Tesla EVs classified as "weirdmobiles" by the general public.

    Why do you think luxury ICE makers take such great lengths to keep their engines quiet? It's a huge, huge selling point. Having driven two econo-EVs before my Model 3, I can assure you that passengers who know nothing about EVs or noisemakers react differently as well. Pedestrian noisemakers are very audible in econo-EV cabins, but pedestrians don't recognize it as a car and such don't react any differently.

    One of my least favorite things about my last EV is that the car was quieter from 20-30 mph than it was at 1-15 mph.

    If they put in this law, then they really need to stop discriminating against EVs and put this into *all* vehicles. If they force all EVs to be weirdmobiles, they need to force luxury ICEs to also be weirdmobiles so that the EV revolution is not hampered in any way.
     
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  4. StellarRat

    StellarRat Active Member

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    I guess you can't completely fix stupid. We've had two people where I live get run over by the Amtrak train, A FRICKIN TRAIN, because they were so distracted with loud headphones and looking at their phones that they couldn't even hear or see a FRICKIN TRAIN!! You've got to notice your walking over train tracks, right?? When a train is coming the ground even shakes. How could you not notice that?? I think if I ran over someone in that condition and I wasn't legally at fault I wouldn't feel nearly as bad.
     
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  5. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    I'd be cool with the fart sounds currently available in the fart Easter egg.
     
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  6. Hank42

    Hank42 Member

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    Agreed - apply it to all vehicles - including bikes - and rollerblades - or any vehicle that has a speed capacity greater than a human pedestrian, and it would make more sense to me. Singling out EV's is just plain biased, and another means of collecting revenue by regulating something for the heck of it. Where are the statistics that show more pedestrians killed by silent EV's vs Silent other vehicles to justify these noisemaker doohickeys?
     
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  7. arcus

    arcus Active Member

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    We've had a cyclist ran over by a commuter train - he didn't figure out that the train gate down means train is approaching. Headset was on as well :(

    P.S. Not sure why you gave my earlier post a dislike - I was being sarcastic, in case the wink at the end of sentence didn't give it away.
     
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  8. Gavyne

    Gavyne Member

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    People that walk around a lot do tend to wear headphones listening to music or talking on the phone. Just sit there and watch the street sometimes you'll know. But hey, let's make the world more noisy because that solves problems.
     
  9. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight No Roads

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    What? What revenue?
     
  10. StellarRat

    StellarRat Active Member

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    Fixed.
     
  11. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

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    The regulation has requirements for the sound, and for making similar models emit similar sounds. You can't just play any noise you want. The purpose is to be automatically recognized as a vehicle without the pedestrian having to think about it.

    And yet pedestrian collisions still happen constantly. I'm sure everyone here is an extremely attentive, expert, highly trained driver, but the average driver on the average road on the average day is not paying attention. These regulations are conservatively estimated to prevent 2,000 additional collisions with pedestrians per year.

    Pedestrians account for around 14% of traffic fatalities per year in 2013, and the trend has been increasing. Non-fatal pedestrian collisions were around 66,000 the same year.

    Source: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812124

    In the EU and I believe Japan, the rules do apply to ICE vehicles as well. The NHTSA is apparently considering applying these rules to ICE vehicles with stop/start features. I think a minimum decibel emission is perhaps the wrong approach, because as more EVs get on the road there will be less background noise, and so the noise from an EV won't have to be as noticeable above that background. But that's the point of these noises, to be subconsciously recognized as a vehicle, and to be noticeable to a nearby pedestrian.

    The Denver mall busses have similar devices on them, and they're very quiet. Almost pleasant. And a massive improvement over what an ICE bus sounds like.

    Silent denver bus:


    Denver bus with pedestrian warning noise:


    Notice how extremely quiet that electronic sound is. People talking are about as loud, but when it approaches you (in real life at least), it's extremely noticeable.
     
  12. wenkan

    wenkan Member

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    How much of that caused by low speed vehicles? If slower than 10mph you still hit someone I believe the driver must be a moron.
     
  13. eloder

    eloder Active Member

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    The sound is only noticeable to EV nerds who are paying attention to it. I mean I can detect a Prius from across the street without looking at it.

    Your average pedestrian won't be able to tell that noise is a car, and since there will eventually be dozens or hundreds of different car noises it probably will never all that effective. Since getting my Model 3 I haven't noticed any difference between my super loud Star Trek impulse engine smart fortwo and my deathly quiet Model 3 in parking lots.
     
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  14. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

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    You're comparing actual safety features to a useless annoying sound generator


    Lol


    I disabled the sound generator on my Volt and Smart ED and I will do the same on my Model 3 if it's equipped with one.


    And all cars have a standard sound generator. It's called the stereo
     
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  15. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I do in my parking garage at work... I turn up the music.
     
  16. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 100D 2019.16.2

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    Living in the Denver area and having had to take those buses to work daily, I can tell you people ignore then and walk in front of them all the time. I never found the sounds pleasant but maybe that's because I didn't like working downtown.
     
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  17. tomc603

    tomc603 Member

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    You've driven before, though, so I assume you've got a sense for how many morons are out there.

    The noise generator is pretty noticeable when it approaches. I had no idea there were even electric busses out there until I heard this noise.

    We can't fix people being idiots. But the point of these noise makers is to alert people not paying attention or not able to see the vehicle that it's coming right for them. If someone wants to play chicken with a bus, that's on them. But if someone can't hear my car creeping around the corner at a crosswalk, we should take simple measures to try to prevent that. The noise isn't supposed to be pleasant, though, it's supposed to stand out against the background.
     
  18. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    As others have pointed out, in a city with multiple cars with sound generators all moving slowly at once, it will just be a jumble of noise and people will likely notice the first time they hear the noise, and then start tuning it out.

    When I'm making a right turn on a busy street I mainly look to the left for a gap in traffic, but have gotten into the habit of glancing right before going because people will just strut out into the intersection and let traffic screech to a halt. It is true they have the right of way, but a human on foot is much more maneuverable and has a much shorter stopping distance than a car. When I'm on foot and crossing the street without a light I always wave cars through and go when there is a gap, but I'm weird that way.

    I look because I did come close to hitting a pedestrian who just strutted across the street when I was about to make a right when the ink was still wet on my first license. That was in Los Angeles where is seemed to be more common than here in Washington where people are usually a bit more cautious about cars. But there are idiots everywhere.
     
  19. CapnOMatic

    CapnOMatic Member

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    I live near DC and I have seen people who don't even look before crossing a busy intersection. One made me slam on my brakes and I had a green light. He didn't even look at me once while crossing the street. But I didn't think this law was meant for people who could see. I thought it was for blind people? Similar to how all elevator numbers have to have Braille and how some intersections use bird chirps or a verbal "walk" voice to notify the blind that they can cross the street.

    But if we are forced to adopt something I vote for allowing the owners to install their own sound file. Maybe something like this:

     
  20. Hank42

    Hank42 Member

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    Ah, let me clarify with a hypothetical scenario:
    Inspection station mechanic: "You disabled your dohickey(or your dohickey does not work)"
    Me: "So?"
    Inspection station mechanic: "Can't pass you until I repair that at a cost of (10x what it should cost)"... There's the $$ argument.

    Also, I'm sure eventually some enforcement agency somewhere will pull someone over for a failed dohickey - akin to a broken tail light etc.. They can't do that to an ICE because the law doesn't apply. And someone already brought up the argument about liability - which I can go either way on - but I'll at my $.02 on that too:

    Now that EV's are singled out to have this dohickey installed, that poor pedestrian who was struck can't just say "I didn't hear the car", they can say "I didn't hear the car because it is electric and it's owner disabled it's dohickey, which is illegal" - making the driver appear malicious.
    If the same person was struck by a silent ICE, their argument would have less merit "I didn't hear the car" and the case would be more clear cut.

    I don't argue for a second however that a noisy car in a pedestrian situation is safer than a silent one. I just don't think it should be the case if people look where they are going and not just rely on their ears (while they are heads down staring at facebook updates on their phone while crossing the street/parking lot) Roads and parking lots are dangerous places filled with multi-ton death machines on wheels, don't assume even a dohicky making noise will keep you from getting hit - respect the environment you are traveling in and adjust your actions accordingly!(i.e. pay attention when in a potentially dangerous situation).
     
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