another hole in the Dealer cartel argument.

[chickensevil]

I also highly recommend reading Edmunds "Confessions of a Car Salesman". The whole read is quite good but was originally published in 2001. So since the claim is "things have changed" I have linked the update they did in 2009 which was yet again updated in 2013. If 2013 data isn't good enough, then I don't know what would be.

Bottom line there are still the same 5 pain points of buying from a stealership and the only way to sorta get around them (thereby making them less painful) is to figure most of the stuff out before you go to the dealer and thereby push yourself through some of the process a bit faster (and avoid some of the pitfalls). The guy who doesn't research any of this stuff before hand would likely still get taken for every penny since knowledge is the only way to fight them. Which still makes it painful.

What's Changed Since Edmunds Published "Confessions of a Car Salesman"? on Edmunds.com

Here are the pain points:
1. I can't get a real price for the car I'm interested in buying.
2. I hate negotiating.
3. I don't like waiting while my salesman takes my offer to "the boss."
4. I hate feeling pressured and manipulated.
5. The sales pitches for additional products and services in the finance and insurance office make me uncomfortable.

And if you look Tesla has solved pretty much all of them with their business model. The only thing that is left is the extended warranty and should you pay for service or not issue which I have a feeling will be sorted out better as Tesla gets better at things. So negating 4 out of 5 of the major pains of buying a car is a huge win! And really they don't even pitch you on either the service or the warranty, you would have to find that info on their site to even be lured into it at all. They certainly don't chuck it down your throat. So I give Tesla a 4.5 out of 5 for eliminating the pains of car buying

 

[Pollux]

Hi, @iadbound,

I'm sorry for your woes. Tesla has all the statistics; we have only the anecdotes.

My impression from the anecdotes is that vehicle quality is continuously improving. I received delivery of my P85+ in August, 2013. At that time, I had few if any of the issues listed on Nick Howe's famous and incredibly handy delivery checklist. I used the checklist as a way to learn more about the car. Subsequently, I have had the vehicle in for service a number of times, including for some major issues. But the service has consistently been knock-it-out-of-the-park amazing (Watertown Service Center, Massachusetts). In fact, I have used Tesla service more than I would have for a competing company because the experience is so wonderful and all of my concerns are taken into account. Even the tiniest things get attention. I worry that they can't afford this level of service over time... but for now, it's so good that I even find *excuses* to go visit the Service Center and its staff.

I'm sure this story doesn't help relieve your pain one bit. Perhaps it will give you hope that your service center experiences will improve when additional service capacity comes on line in your area.

Alan

P.S. Tesla does still suck at non-SC communication, though. Out of maybe 5 or 6 emails to ownership, I think I've received responses to 1 or 2. And, of course, based on frequent anecdotes in this forum, there appears to be uneven distribution of information to the Service Centers from Tesla HQ.

I have the impression that my long service woes might be an exception given all of the research that I did before buying the car. After all, there will always be a lemon or two when making so many cars. Still frustrating. In addition, I'm also a little annoyed that [email protected] never got back to me after I wrote a long, detailed email explaining my concerns. I also called and asked about the email, but still haven't heard back.

Regardless, I hopeful that this latest repair will have me all set to go and that I won't need to return until I need an annual service.

 

[Chickenlittle]

The backups at the service centers are not a good sign. I've been experiencing very long repair times. In my 49 days of ownership, the car has been at the Service Center 16 days and I had one day where I couldn't use the car before the service center picked it up. In addition, I lost a couple of days while my detailer performed extra paint correction due to bad vehicle preparation. On this latest repair (car is at the SC now) I really had to press the Service Center to get me in because two of the issues were items that were not fully corrected from the previous Service Center visit.

The problems I have seen include: difficulty getting parts; difficulty diagnosing issues; having to wait a long time for engineering and other resources in California to respond to the Service Center; too much work for one smallish service center to handle.

The other thing that concerns me is that Tesla may have underestimated the amount of maintenance the Model S actually requires. From what I can see, the car is not exactly rock solid coming off the assembly line and Tesla Service Centers, therefore, spend a lot of time chasing down niggling issues.

We are a bit lucky in the DC area because another service center is on track to be built, but I just hope it isn't too little to late. And Chickensevil is right (as usual), that Tesla would be in dire straits, from a service capacity perspective, if it were hit with a major recall.

my car is 20 months old with 26K miles. had routine service, 12 volt battery and tire rotations at rockville center. never a wait, no issues. i dont understand your issues and they certainly do not mirror my experience.

 

[iadbound]

Hi, @iadbound,

I'm sorry for your woes. Tesla has all the statistics; we have only the anecdotes.

My impression from the anecdotes is that vehicle quality is continuously improving. I received delivery of my P85+ in August, 2013. At that time, I had few if any of the issues listed on Nick Howe's famous and incredibly handy delivery checklist. I used the checklist as a way to learn more about the car. Subsequently, I have had the vehicle in for service a number of times, including for some major issues. But the service has consistently been knock-it-out-of-the-park amazing (Watertown Service Center, Massachusetts). In fact, I have used Tesla service more than I would have for a competing company because the experience is so wonderful and all of my concerns are taken into account. Even the tiniest things get attention. I worry that they can't afford this level of service over time... but for now, it's so good that I even find *excuses* to go visit the Service Center and its staff.

I'm sure this story doesn't help relieve your pain one bit. Perhaps it will give you hope that your service center experiences will improve when additional service capacity comes on line in your area.

Alan

P.S. Tesla does still suck at non-SC communication, though. Out of maybe 5 or 6 emails to ownership, I think I've received responses to 1 or 2. And, of course, based on frequent anecdotes in this forum, there appears to be uneven distribution of information to the Service Centers from Tesla HQ.

Thanks for the note. I would agree that the general consensus is that service is very much on top of major issues. The issues I have had seem to be real one-off situations owing to the unusual nature of the main display problem coupled with parts availability and engineering analysis time shortages.

my car is 20 months old with 26K miles. had routine service, 12 volt battery and tire rotations at rockville center. never a wait, no issues. i dont understand your issues and they certainly do not mirror my experience.

I hear you. I don't think my experience has been typical. At the suggestion of a forum member I let Jerome know, and I think he is taking a fairly active interest in the problems, diagnoses and delays.

I have my car back now, and mechanically everything seems fine. There is one cosmetic issue that came up (a scratch) most likely do to being outside for many days, and the service center has already arranged to get it addressed for me.

One last thing, the folks at the Rockville Service Center have been very professional and conscientious. They communicate well, and I believe they try very hard to get things done. In many ways, I think they have been at the mercy of others, which can't be fun.

Regardless, things are getting squared away, and I'm hopeful this little stretch of trouble will be the last.

 

[TTT]

Another reason not to trust car dealers, I am :smile: with my MS and service center
http://abcnews.go.com/US/abc-news-investigation-uncovers-hundreds-vehicles-us-sold/story?id=29711483