Another Model X crash, driver says autopilot was engaged

[trils0n]

Here is an interesting article of NASA's research on AP-human interface problems;

What NASA Could Teach Tesla about Autopilot's Limits

That article incorrectly identifies Tesla's Autopilot as a NHTSA Level 3 system. Autopilot is a Level 2 system.

I would be surprised if Tesla hasn't looked at the NASA and other studies on cockpits and automation. (The CEO does also run an aerospace company). I expect the 8.0 software update to include some UI changes in that vein.

 

[CleanPower]

There is an old story - supposedly about Qantas pilots and their mechanics. Pilots are asked to write up problems they have observed with the aircraft in the aircraft log and then the mechanics note their resolution to the squawks in the log as well.

Pilot: Test flight OK except autoland function is very rough.
Mechanic: Autoland function not installed on this aircraft.

 

[bhzmark]

Tesla will regret calling their suite of driving aids "autopilot". That decision was definitely make by marketing and not legal. It should be called "co-pilot" or something in that vein.

"In draft regulations released late Friday, the state Department of Motor Vehicles said car companies should not use the terms “self-driving,” “automated” or “auto-pilot” in advertising unless their cars are capable of driving themselves without human passengers paying attention."


California to Tesla: Don’t call it ‘Autopilot’

 

[3Victoria]

I like the quip "Better recall the term auto-mobile" -- obviously refers to an autonomous vehicle.

 

[Nikxice]

Perhaps California regulators should also be weighing in on the term autopilot as it pertains to aircraft flying within CA airspace. Basic wing leveler autopilot systems have been blamed for numerous CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) accidents. Here now is a perfect opportunity for CA regulators to take a hard look at autopilot across all forms of transportation and clean up the decades old misuse of this term.

 

[Aljohn]

Political Grandstanding ... According to the NHTSA 32,675 people died in Traffic Accidents in 2014. Certainly all deaths are an issue. Route out the cause of the other 32,573 and maybe there is something CA should be doing which would have a greater impact in reducing fatalities.

Let's see.... why not do away with 5 Star Crash rating because it makes people think they can survive anything in a 5 Star auto (it's really a synonym for percent chance of dying in an accident, but we don't call it that since 5 Star sounds better than 5% chance of dying).

Naming convention isn't the issue. We all do unintentional "dumb" things while driving. Luckily most of survive them by luck or circumstances. We have one of the safest cars on the road for the times the "dumb" thing ends up in an accident. Most Tesla owners read the manual and Auto Pilot disclosure... never expected Autopilot to be autonomous. OK... Call it "driver assisted lane keeping" -- someone is going to say that means I don't have to drive the car -- it has "lane keeping". It will still require the driver to pay attention and keep hands on the wheel. When those dump things happen, whatever it's called may keep you from having an accident. Thanks Tesla!

While on my thoughts of Political Grandstanding... of all the things here in Georgia for the lawmakers to work on, they decided that the few thousand or so EV's not paying for gasoline is something that had to be urgently addressed, so they imposed a $200 fee to make sure we paid "road taxes" portion of gasoline prices. But a Carbon tax on placing tons of Co2 in the air is not an issue worthy of their time. Sounds good to the millions of ICE car owners that we ELECTRIC people aren't getting away free. Millions of ICE votes vs. EV drivers measly few thousand or so. Great Political Theater...

 

[msnow]

Perhaps California regulators should also be weighing in on the term autopilot as it pertains to aircraft flying within CA airspace. Basic wing leveler autopilot systems have been blamed for numerous CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) accidents. Here now is a perfect opportunity for CA regulators to take a hard look at autopilot across all forms of transportation and clean up the decades old misuse of this term.

Your want the Department of Motor Vehicles to regulate aircraft too?

 

[bonaire]

Political Grandstanding ... According to the NHTSA 32,675 people died in Traffic Accidents in 2014. Certainly all deaths are an issue. Route out the cause of the other 32,573 and maybe there is something CA should be doing which would have a greater impact in reducing fatalities.

Let's see.... why not do away with 5 Star Crash rating because it makes people think they can survive anything in a 5 Star auto (it's really a synonym for percent chance of dying in an accident, but we don't call it that since 5 Star sounds better than 5% chance of dying).

Naming convention isn't the issue. We all do unintentional "dumb" things while driving. Luckily most of survive them by luck or circumstances. We have one of the safest cars on the road for the times the "dumb" thing ends up in an accident. Most Tesla owners read the manual and Auto Pilot disclosure... never expected Autopilot to be autonomous. OK... Call it "driver assisted lane keeping" -- someone is going to say that means I don't have to drive the car -- it has "lane keeping". It will still require the driver to pay attention and keep hands on the wheel. When those dump things happen, whatever it's called may keep you from having an accident. Thanks Tesla!

While on my thoughts of Political Grandstanding... of all the things here in Georgia for the lawmakers to work on, they decided that the few thousand or so EV's not paying for gasoline is something that had to be urgently addressed, so they imposed a $200 fee to make sure we paid "road taxes" portion of gasoline prices. But a Carbon tax on placing tons of Co2 in the air is not an issue worthy of their time. Sounds good to the millions of ICE car owners that we ELECTRIC people aren't getting away free. Millions of ICE votes vs. EV drivers measly few thousand or so. Great Political Theater...

Two biggies - DUI and distracted driving. General "whoops, missed seeing that guy" cannot be a majority and hard to pin down unless the deaths are classified (which I think they are) at least down to DUI or not. I presume habitual drinkers may want to rely on AP in order to help their habitual nature.

 

[Chopr147]

CA DMV: their problem is they believe all others are just as dumb as they are.

 

[msnow]

CA DMV: their problem is they believe all others are just as dumb as they are.

To be fair they only said "should" just like a few of the magazines looking into this said.

 

[ccutrer]

Most Tesla owners read the manual

Source? While I agree with the rest of your post, I doubt you have a source for this, and I seriously doubt the assertion. I may believe that Tesla owners are more likely to read the manual than other car owners in general.

 

[Aljohn]

Source? While I agree with the rest of your post, I doubt you have a source for this, and I seriously doubt the assertion. I may believe that Tesla owners are more likely to read the manual than other car owners in general.

I made it "most" not all or a specific percentage. It's merely an assertion, since there is no way of having a concrete fact.

 

[ccutrer]

I made it "most" not all or a specific percentage. It's merely an assertion, since there is no way of having a concrete fact.

"Most" typically means a majority, or greater than 50% (given that there are only two groups - those that read or didn't read the manual). I'm guessing the number is much much lower, maybe 10% with Tesla, less than 5% in general. And I'm referring to reading more than one chapter of the manual, even skimming or skipping all the scary warnings.

 

[ccutrer]

"Most" typically means a majority, or greater than 50% (given that there are only two groups - those that read or didn't read the manual). I'm guessing the number is much much lower, maybe 10% with Tesla, less than 5% in general. And I'm referring to reading more than one chapter of the manual, even skimming or skipping all the scary warnings.

I think my point is that the general public does not read their car's manual from cover to cover. Tesla owners are unique, but even then they're still mostly "normal" people. And as Tesla's goal is to bring EVs to the masses, we can't assume that most, or even some significant fraction, will read the manual. The public perception, if we like it or not, is that Teslas are fully autonomous. I don't know how to fix that. But relying on "they should have read the manual" just won't fly. For me, the warning in the IC every time I enable autopilot is sufficient, but I'm in the extreme minority that has read the manual cover to cover, including all warnings .