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Another NHSTA Unintended Acceleration Complaint

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Well, if you say so. Seems that when I tried to stop behind the Suburban quickly, it was barely quick enough. The chime was going, both pedals pushed, and I was cramming it to the floor, actually slowing down instead of speeding up, so I guess the brake was actually being pushed. It just didn't seem like it was fast enough, tho I didn't hit him. If they made it so the speed pedal actually cut out whenever the brake was pushed, that would eliminate a lot of this, but you say it already does that. Just didn't seem like it. I had heard that the brake is stronger than the power and that was what was happening: They were fighting each other, but brakes won. You say not. But when you're down to the last two feet, it seems like the power is still fighting the brake.

Having size 15 D feet doesn't help, either.

That's partly why I like to keep a lot of distance between me and them other guys.
AFAIK brake override systems do not do a binary cutoff of power, but rather decreases power proportionately based on the pedal positions. For example if you have the both pressed all the way down then it knows you likely don't want to move, but if you have the accelerator to the max and only a tiny bit of brake then it knows you probably don't want immediate accelerator cut off. Otherwise it'll be fairly jerky in cases of slight misapplications of the brake pedal. And some systems do not kick in at low speeds (in order to enable two pedal usage for example when climbing a steep hill).
 
My money is on a spouse or someone else turning on creep mode without the driver knowing about it. If you have creep turned on and the car lurches forward after lifting off the brake pedal, it can certainly seem like unintended acceleration. But an owner who has driven 10,000 miles should know better. The other possibility is that the owner rear ended another car and is trying to blame it on the manufacturer. Would filing an NHTSA complaint have any bearing on insurance and/or how the police would view such an incident?
 
When reading that complaint for some reason the thought popped into my mind that some people will do anything or blame anyone else to avoid having to own up to their own mistakes.

"Oh crap, I wasn't paying any attention and I just rear ended that car. Quick, to the execuse-o-matic! I know - unattended acceleration. That'll absolve me of all responsibility."

Not saying that's what happened here, since obviously we don't know. But boy that thought really came on strong in reading that complaint.
 
I am guessing driver profile can't bring back the settings automatically after a service center visit?

Also, Tesla should really hurry up with the crash avoidance system. Even if this is driver error, if they add that feature that can prevent user error as well.
 
yobigd20 said:

Ok, so this is what I find odd about this complaint. The driver states that they were making a left turn and after waiting for oncoming traffic they lifted their foot off the brake and the incident occurred.

So, we have to assume they were not following good driving techniques as a good driver does not turn the wheel while waiting to make a turn across traffic in case they get rear ended. You don't want to get pushed into oncoming traffic in addition to getting rear ended. So we have to assume they already had the wheel cranked to make the turn. Otherwise they would have just gone forward down the street.

Ok, so we assume that they had the wheel cranked. It could not have been cranked all the way for the turn, because if it was then they would have just rushed into the parking garage, instead of hitting the other car.

So,I'm guessing here but I think lane widths on streets in the US are at least 10 feet. We'll go with that, and the fact that they were not going straight across the lane, but must have been at an angle to hit the other car, they probably travelled 12 or more feet before they hit the other car.

So, making these assumptions, I find it hard to believe that creep, at its normal speed could cause this. As I would assume the driver would have enough time to react and either turn the wheel the rest of the way to enter the garage or brake, even if the sudden movement caused by creep surprised them.

Ok, so creep, functioning normally is probably not the cause.

So, then what about unintended acceleration. That would have to be quite a bit of acceleration to cross that distance without the driver having enough time to hit the brake or turn, unless they froze when it happened. But most of us when faced with hitting something, instinctively hit the brake. So, unless both unintended acceleration and brake failure occurred, I find this difficult to believe. Though again not impossible.

However unintended acceleration can occur in cars. I had it happen to me once,when I was learning to drive. I was 15 and had had my permit for about 2 months. I was pulling into a parking lot off the highway planning on parking dirctly in front of the building we were stopping at. I came in a little fast but was lined up for the parking spot. I hit the brake and the car didn't seem to slow down. To this day I don't know if that was an illusion or if the brakes really went out. But what happened next was the cause of the unintended acceleration. In my newness to driving and my panic, I lifted my foot off of the brake and hit the accelerator. Couldn't tell you why I did it, maybe my brain in that moment of confusion thought I was hitting the wrong pedal and so it figured it would try the other one. But either way I distinctly remember doing it. So, it is quite possible that the driver had an unintended acceleration, do to them hitting the wrong pedal and they might not have even realized that they did.

So, based on everything above, I'm leaning towards user error. Though, whether or not they realize they made the error I don't know. They may honestly believe the car did it on its own or they could be deluding themselves. I know I'd try to block out my memory if I were to cause damage to Lithie.
 
My money is on a spouse or someone else turning on creep mode without the driver knowing about it. If you have creep turned on and the car lurches forward after lifting off the brake pedal, it can certainly seem like unintended acceleration. But an owner who has driven 10,000 miles should know better. The other possibility is that the owner rear ended another car and is trying to blame it on the manufacturer. Would filing an NHTSA complaint have any bearing on insurance and/or how the police would view such an incident?

I was trying to determine whether the creep setting is stored in a driver profile; the 4.0 manual does not explicitly list what is 'profiled' but seems like it would be stored. Relevance: yet another reason for each driver to have a stored profile and the activate your again before driving.
 
I'm very suspicious about these complaints, largely based on my own driver error. I've had two instances when I've been on the accelerator and brake at the same time, and they've been totally my fault. These can be panic inducing, which can result in precisely the kind of incidents described in these complaints. So I think driver error is very likely the cause.

Also we know that Tesla has many enemies in the fossil fuel industry, and history tells that it will stoop to any lows to protect its interests. It would be naive not to suspect this kind of thing.
 
The only unintended acceleration I experience is when I don't check the speedometer while I'm driving!

Checking out some of the complaints... I believe this one is from a forum member:

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Here's the one about the evil Tesla CEO (lol):

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Here's another unintended acceleration, says Tesla blamed it on his wife (huh):

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This one is not really a complaint, but a question about the fire (okaay...):

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And here's a new one about premature tire wear (this one I believe):

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All of these complaints sound fairly made up.
No, the first and last are almost certainly real. The first was posted here or on Telsa's forums quite some time ago and perfectly legit. The last, excessive tire wear, is an extremely common problem and something Tesla has apparently told some folks is by design (a local member was basically told by service that Tesla engineering says do not adjust camber to stop excessive tire wear). If Tesla has designed a car that causes much more wear than typical, it's certainly something that should be called out somewhere, though whether that's NHTSA, I don't know.
 
No, the first and last are almost certainly real. The first was posted here or on Telsa's forums quite some time ago and perfectly legit. The last, excessive tire wear, is an extremely common problem and something Tesla has apparently told some folks is by design (a local member was basically told by service that Tesla engineering says do not adjust camber to stop excessive tire wear). If Tesla has designed a car that causes much more wear than typical, it's certainly something that should be called out somewhere, though whether that's NHTSA, I don't know.
Indeed, the first one resulted in (or was coincidental to) a Tesla-issued service bulletin about tightening the bolts, if I remember right...
 
My bet is on accidental re-engagement of cruise control instead of left hand turn signal. Done it a few times myself; no accident yet.
Interesting hypothesis. Yeah, I don't like the placement of the CC lever but it's in the same messed up position as on Mercedes. I believe they're from the same supplier or Tesla buys that from Mercedes.

On the Model S, will it let you resume CC if the car is below 25 mph? IIRC, on Toyota's, by design, they intentionally forget the set CC speed if you go below 25 mph (whether or not CC engaged). This is real annoying. On Nissans, they don't forget the speed but IIRC (and from glancing at my Leaf manual) won't let you resume until the speed is at least 25 mph. I like the latter much better.

(Own a Toyota and lease a Nissan now. Had 2 Nissans before along w/another Toyota.)
 
AFAIK brake override systems do not do a binary cutoff of power, but rather decreases power proportionately based on the pedal positions. For example if you have the both pressed all the way down then it knows you likely don't want to move, but if you have the accelerator to the max and only a tiny bit of brake then it knows you probably don't want immediate accelerator cut off. Otherwise it'll be fairly jerky in cases of slight misapplications of the brake pedal. And some systems do not kick in at low speeds (in order to enable two pedal usage for example when climbing a steep hill).

My experience has been that if you press the accelerator, and then add the brake, electric torque will be immediately cut to 0.
If you press the brake, and then add the accelerator, you get full electric torque AND friction braking.

If anyone has a different experience, I'd love to hear it.


While I like that you can two foot on a steep hill with the latter case, I don't like that you can pour 100 kW of go power into the wheels at the same time you're stepping on the brake. That's just silly, and it's going to get Tesla sued. I wrote this some time ago on the pedal positions thread: Tesla needs to fix this. My feet aren't that wide, so I don't have a big problem with the one foot, two pedal issue, but clearly some people have the problem, and one person is one too many when there's a simple software fix to make the car less dangerous.

It seems like the driver of this thread would not have been helped by this fix, but some day somebody will be saved if electric torque is limited when the accelerator is pressed after the brake.