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Another PG&E Sucks and SGIP Thread (15 minute data interval request)

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
I'm sure half of this forum has blocked me to avoid hearing about why PG&E sucks, SGIP, and blah blah. But for the other half that haven't blocked me... Also, if you're a highly technical wiz with Linux boxes all over your house + a CS background, you probably don't care about this thread.

But for those that hear "Hash" and think "Tweet" or "breakfast potatoes", please be advised PG&E seems to be cracking down on having the homeowner produce required "discharge data" with their SGIP rebate.

Even though my system was literally approved for PTO by PG&E in Mid-March, 2021, the PG&E SGIP team has cited that my application lacks "Discharge Data" consistent with the requirements of the SGIP program. They require 5 years of data at 15 minute interval (similar to the Greenbutton). But, the thing is the Greenbutton only knows what energy was sent to PG&E (edit, or received from PG&E). For SGIP, they need separate auditable 15 minute interval discharge data showing battery performance.

When I told them the system was literally just commissioned, and my data would not meet their criteria for 5 years of data at 15 minute internvals... they said they fully expected me to produce this data. I can't tell if they're going to hold onto my rebate for 5 years, but as you can imagine, I wouldn't even know how to produce 15 minute interval data even if I wanted to. The Tesla app lets you save 15 minute data per day, but that means I'll be sitting there exporting a CSV once a day for 1,825 days and saving it somewhere.

Anyway, my point is... if you have SGIP, you should consider saving 15 minute interval data in case PG&E comes calling on it to honor your SGIP. Also, I guess I have a "Field Verification Inspection" coming my way... I guess I better shiny up those disconnects.


1618440042230.png
 
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gpez

Member
Apr 25, 2019
794
658
USA
I'm sure half of this forum has blocked me to avoid hearing about why PG&E sucks, SGIP, and blah blah. But for the other half that haven't blocked me... Also, if you're a highly technical wiz with Linux boxes all over your house + a CS background, you probably don't care about this thread.

But for those that hear "Hash" and think "Tweet" or "breakfast potatoes", please be advised PG&E seems to be cracking down on having the homeowner produce required "discharge data" with their SGIP rebate.

Even though my system was literally approved for PTO by PG&E in Mid-March, 2021, the PG&E SGIP team has cited that my application lacks "Discharge Data" consistent with the requirements of the SGIP program. They require 5 years of data at 15 minute interval (similar to the Greenbutton). But, the thing is the Greenbutton only knows what energy was sent to PG&E. For SGIP, they need separate auditable 15 minute interval discharge data showing battery performance.

When I told them the system was literally just commissioned, and my data would not meet their criteria for 5 years of data at 15 minute internvals... they said they fully expected me to produce this data. I can't tell if they're going to hold onto my rebate for 5 years, but as you can imagine, I wouldn't even know how to produce 15 minute interval data even if I wanted to. The Tesla app lets you save 15 minute data per day, but that means I'll be sitting there exporting a CSV once a day for 1,825 days and saving it somewhere.

Anyway, my point is... if you have SGIP, you should consider saving 15 minute interval data in case PG&E comes calling on it to honor your SGIP. Also, I guess I have a "Field Verification Inspection" coming my way... I guess I better shiny up those disconnects.


View attachment 653806

My tongue is bleeding with how hard I'm biting it about PG&E, SGIP, and California's general approach to governance. I'll be good.

It's very possible Tesla has this data. Obviously they don't have a time machine to give you 5 years of data but I'm pretty sure they have it. Now if they keep it or could provide it to you is a different question.

You may also be able to script the download instead of having to download it at the exact end of every day, but that may require being a wiz/have a CS degree/multiple linux boxes/etc.

Also, this gives me the idea to start selling Disconnect Polish on Amazon. Do you want Chrome or Tesla Red?
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
My tongue is bleeding with how hard I'm biting it about PG&E, SGIP, and California's general approach to governance. I'll be good.

It's very possible Tesla has this data. Obviously they don't have a time machine to give you 5 years of data but I'm pretty sure they have it. Now if they keep it or could provide it to you is a different question.

You may also be able to script the download instead of having to download it at the exact end of every day, but that may require being a wiz/have a CS degree/multiple linux boxes/etc.

Also, this gives me the idea to start selling Disconnect Polish on Amazon. Do you want Chrome or Tesla Red?



I didn't buy my system from Tesla; I got my Powerwalls installed by Sunrun (they actually had inventory!). While Sunrun may keep battery discharge data someplace, I'm not going to trust that this data will be archived for 5 freaking years.

Tesla Red disconnect polish please.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,635
870
auburn, ca
I'm sure half of this forum has blocked me to avoid hearing about why PG&E sucks, SGIP, and blah blah. But for the other half that haven't blocked me... Also, if you're a highly technical wiz with Linux boxes all over your house + a CS background, you probably don't care about this thread.

But for those that hear "Hash" and think "Tweet" or "breakfast potatoes", please be advised PG&E seems to be cracking down on having the homeowner produce required "discharge data" with their SGIP rebate.

Even though my system was literally approved for PTO by PG&E in Mid-March, 2021, the PG&E SGIP team has cited that my application lacks "Discharge Data" consistent with the requirements of the SGIP program. They require 5 years of data at 15 minute interval (similar to the Greenbutton). But, the thing is the Greenbutton only knows what energy was sent to PG&E. For SGIP, they need separate auditable 15 minute interval discharge data showing battery performance.

When I told them the system was literally just commissioned, and my data would not meet their criteria for 5 years of data at 15 minute internvals... they said they fully expected me to produce this data. I can't tell if they're going to hold onto my rebate for 5 years, but as you can imagine, I wouldn't even know how to produce 15 minute interval data even if I wanted to. The Tesla app lets you save 15 minute data per day, but that means I'll be sitting there exporting a CSV once a day for 1,825 days and saving it somewhere.

Anyway, my point is... if you have SGIP, you should consider saving 15 minute interval data in case PG&E comes calling on it to honor your SGIP. Also, I guess I have a "Field Verification Inspection" coming my way... I guess I better shiny up those disconnects.


View attachment 653806
I asked about this from my installer and was told would never be an issue. I have zero idea where or how I could show battery usage. what are others who have been on the SGIP for a while doing? I sure can see my GW app with no grid power and using battery.
 
You may also be able to script the download instead of having to download it at the exact end of every day, but that may require being a wiz/have a CS degree/multiple linux boxes/etc.
I think this is the answer, and I there are some individuals who have built apps that collect this data, which might be an option rather than developing it on your own.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,635
870
auburn, ca
I think this is the answer, and I there are some individuals who have built apps that collect this data, which might be an option rather than developing it on your own.
I just do not believe SGIP expects folks to have to do anything other than what is provided standard. 99% of folks getting this stuff are non technical. We must be missing something, other than certain folks seem to get extra attention. :)
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
I asked about this from my installer and was told would never be an issue. I have zero idea where or how I could show battery usage. what are others who have been on the SGIP for a while doing? I sure can see my GW app with no grid power and using battery.

Sunrun said they've never had SGIP ask a homeowner to produce discharge data. But the email I received from SGIP this week reads:

...the independent third-party inspector identified the following issues: Discharge data missing. To prevent cancellation of your incentive reservation, please respond to this notice within 30 days.
 

h2ofun

Active Member
Aug 11, 2020
3,635
870
auburn, ca
Sunrun said they've never had SGIP ask a homeowner to produce discharge data. But the email I received from SGIP this week reads:

...the independent third-party inspector identified the following issues: Discharge data missing. To prevent cancellation of your incentive reservation, please respond to this notice within 30 days.
Yep, special treatment. I wonder what is going on. Where in the world is discharge data coming from and being reported to whom. And if so, how do we see it. This was one of my concerns about the SGIP program. They implied if you failed you would have to give the money back.
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
Yep, special treatment. I wonder what is going on. Where in the world is discharge data coming from and being reported to whom. And if so, how do we see it. This was one of my concerns about the SGIP program. They implied if you failed you would have to give the money back.


I hate being special. All I wanted was solar and some batteries because PG&E said I couldn't run my air conditioners and I was a terrible energy waster 🥵
 
Tesla's back end servers collect the Powerwall and house energy flow data that SGIP wants, and I'm sure they have a data upload arrangement with PG&E for SGIP compliance. Sunrun needs to coordinate with Tesla to get that data upload to PG&E activated for your account. The 5 years of data is prospective (first 5 years of the installation), not retrospective.

When Tesla is the installer and the SGIP developer, they set this all up themselves. In my case, 2.5 years ago, Tesla was the installer and I was the developer, but Tesla was able to set up the data submission for me (and I don't remember it being very involved at all).

Cheers, Wayne
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
Tesla's back end servers collect the Powerwall and house energy flow data that SGIP wants, and I'm sure they have a data upload arrangement with PG&E for SGIP compliance. Sunrun needs to coordinate with Tesla to get that data upload to PG&E activated for your account. The 5 years of data is prospective (first 5 years of the installation), not retrospective.

When Tesla is the installer and the SGIP developer, they set this all up themselves. In my case, 2.5 years ago, Tesla was the installer and I was the developer, but Tesla was able to set up the data submission for me (and I don't remember it being very involved at all).

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah Sunrun said they’d look into it. But they’re not aware of this requirement on the hundreds of other SGIP they processed in the past... so I’m wondering if there’s actually someone at Tesla I can call to get the link working and go around Sunrun.

Ugh...
 

getakey

Active Member
Jan 28, 2020
1,760
645
95762
Sunrun said they've never had SGIP ask a homeowner to produce discharge data. But the email I received from SGIP this week reads:

...the independent third-party inspector identified the following issues: Discharge data missing. To prevent cancellation of your incentive reservation, please respond to this notice within 30 days.
Seems like the inspector needs to get up to speed. Have they formally asked you to provide the data? You only need to provide "upon request." If not, then it is not "missing"
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
Seems like the inspector needs to get up to speed. Have they formally asked you to provide the data? You only need to provide "upon request." If not, then it is not "missing"


PG&E's SGIP team said the discharge data was missing and I have 30 days to remedy the situation. I don't really know if that means I need to provide the data or simply prove the data can be produced.

The past 4 times PG&E's SGIP team emailed me with a problem on my application, I asked Sunrun to look into it to fix on my behalf. You know, like how SGIP probably worked for the tens of thousands of other customers in California.

But each time, I ultimately have to respond myself because Sunrun's fully staffed and highly experienced rebates team doesn't seem to know what to do. They've never seen these types of requests on all other SGIP applications.
 

gpez

Member
Apr 25, 2019
794
658
USA
I didn't buy my system from Tesla; I got my Powerwalls installed by Sunrun (they actually had inventory!). While Sunrun may keep battery discharge data someplace, I'm not going to trust that this data will be archived for 5 freaking years.

Tesla Red disconnect polish please.

Doesn't matter who installs, Powerwall still sends data directly to Tesla. I had a 3rd party installer too but the Tesla app phones back to Tesla's server. Honestly would be surprised if Sunrun has the data, I don't see a way for them to get it unless they get it from Tesla.
 
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holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
@holeydonut Just reading the behind the wall NDA stuff, you 100% get this information from Sunrun. The document is called SGIP battery discharge report process, its simple as long as your system has been active 7 days.

Tell your installers to go to the portal and follow the bread crumbs

Is the portal a website operated by Tesla or some third party API thing?

I think the Sunrun rebates team isn’t technically savvy (neither am I). So I’d have to point them to a URL or some very no-brainer instructions to feed my discharge data over to PG&E’s SGIP administration.

I guess the weird part is Tesla and Sunrun were like #1 and #2 respectively in SGIP claims, and somehow Sunrun’s team isn’t aware of this SGIP requirement for discharge data.
 

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,114
2,472
East Bay NorCal
The Tesla portal is where installers get all white papers and manuals.

I cant give more than that due to NDA.


Lol if there's a portal, then this begs the question why Sunrun's designers (back in 2020) needed me to send them the Powerwall 2 installation manual that showed a partial backup solution with metered non-backup facility loads that could get ESS energy while the utility was online. I kind of feel bad for anyone that bought a Powerwall 2 from Sunrun in 2019 and 2020. I think Sunrun installed every single one of them as a critical loads backup setup.

Maybe Sunrun isn't actually a Tesla certified partner. Maybe they just found a few semi trucks full of Powerwalls and Gateways and decided to make lemonade out of some really expensive lemons. I have noticed Sunrun's paid advertising that shows up in various feeds has been showing their Brightbox / LG Chem solution.
 

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