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Another SuperCapacitor Development Announcement

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Ulmo, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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  2. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    I saw something about the contact lens material somewhere else. If this is the big breakthrough everyone was hoping for, it will still be 10 years or more before production is high enough to support production vehicles. We may hear about some test prototype cars in 5-8 years.

    These technologies take a while to get from the lab to full production.

    It is interesting though. It seems somebody announces a big breakthrough almost weekly and most don't pan out.
     
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  3. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    Yup.

    How many were false hope and how many just lack of perseverance? And how many succeed, and how many discover success accidentally?
     
  4. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    There are probably few that just give up. There is enough money in whoever comes up with the next big breakthrough to keep their corporate employers pushing even if the individual researchers lose interest.

    Li-ion batteries were discovered due to a lab accident, but most breakthroughs come from working out what should be physically possible, then testing it in the lab. In many cases material science just isn't up to what might be physically possible. ie something may work on paper, but it turns out to be impossible to build something in such a way that it will actually work. One example is lithium-air batteries. Theoretically you can get pretty good energy densities with that kind of battery, but it's kind of impossible to make a battery terminal out of a gas, so while there have been some lab experiments that managed to get something to work for a very short time, it's pretty much impossible to make such a battery unless someone can figure out how to get the gas to stay still permanently.
     
  5. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    Cool. I'm glad someone posted this thread. I'm going to hijack it for another idea of mine:

    Hybrid SuperCapacitor + Lithium Ion vehicles.

    When Super-Capacitors are good enough that they can be installed in, for instance, a Tesla Model S or X as, say, 10% of the energy store, replacing about a similar amount of battery weight and volume, then they could fill up from regen, fill up while idling, fill up while cruising (not accelerating), etc., and when accelerating from a stop or overtaking, they could be the first drain point, taking wear and tear off the Lithium batteries. It would essentially be the Prius of Tesla: treating the (Tesla) Lithium batteries as the Tesla version of the (Toyota) ICE engine, and the (Tesla) SuperCaps as the Tesla version of the (Toyota) batteries, in almost identical hybrid approach, only better! Correct me if I'm wrong: it might generate less heat, might save energy, and will almost surely save on wear and tear and give better longevity to the Lithium batteries (??!); do current production Super Capacitors explode, degrade or otherwise work worse or as bad as Lithium batteries, or have some other volume, shape, or weight profile that is just too extremely different than Lithium? Would the weight of the additional electronics for switching between the two (filling one from other, using one more than other for filling and/or drawing power) obviate any savings?

    Other main question is if implementing such a hybrid approach is timely enough in any point in future history after now and before Super Capacitors or Solid State batteries are good enough all by themselves that this hybrid approach is no longer optimal. Will this hybrid approach ever be optimal? And, if so, when, and for how long?
     
  6. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Elon has said the ultimate long term solution is supercapacitors, but the energy density today is just too low. From the research going on with solid state batteries, when they come to market they may be able to absorb and deliver energy fast enough that super capacitors would just be complicating the system more.

    I do think that experimenting with supercapacitors for short term storage while driving might have some advantages with li-ion cells. They could also be set up to bleed the energy in the supercapacitors back into the battery pack when you park.
     
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