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Another Tesla Hit Piece, From a Tech Site???

liuping

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,242
897
San Diego
I'd really love to know how much big oil paid this tool box to write something so completely ignorant on a "tech" website... Wow...

http://bgr.com/2015/09/15/tesla-vs-porsche-mercedes-analysis/

Jeff

Please don't give them the clicks.

The whole article is total BS. Starting with the picture of a burning Model S at the top of the article, to them saying in 5 years "Tesla is still going to be making electric go-karts while everyone else makes electric cars."

Absolute total garbage click bait.
 

dmckinstry

Model X 2019
Jul 9, 2011
1,428
1,854
Medical Lake, WA (near Spokane)
Please don't give them the clicks.

The whole article is total BS. Starting with the picture of a burning Model S at the top of the article, to them saying in 5 years "Tesla is still going to be making electric go-karts while everyone else makes electric cars."

Absolute total garbage click bait.

If everyone else is going to be making electric cars, they're probably going to be using/buying Tesla's drive trains.
 

PRJIM

Member
Jul 30, 2012
323
26
USA
If everyone else is going to be making electric cars, they're probably going to be using/buying Tesla's drive trains.

FYI Toyota with the Rav4EV and Mercedes with the B-Class electric already use(d) Tesla drive trains and there have been a lot of lemon buy backs with a very small sample size. Both the Rav4EV and B-Class Electric forum are filled with complaints about milling noises and drive train failures.
 

callmesam

Member
Jan 22, 2013
985
629
Santa Monica
Here's the thesis of the article:

"when all the established car makers start going all-electric, what’s Tesla value proposition?

Their brand? Hardly anything other than the current owners of Tesla vehicles.
Their technology? Those patents were released into the public domain.
Their manufacturing process? You’re joking, right?


So seriously, what is Tesla’s play here as far as cars are concerned? Because I don’t see it."

Other choice bits

"Now, I’m not discussing moonshots like the Gigafactory or anything else that Tesla is working on that’s not directly related to cars."
 

Dutchie

Active Member
Jun 9, 2013
1,588
3,694
Canada
Their value proposition?

How about the Superchargers (not a word from that in the article, I don't see established car manufacturers building an infrastructure like that), making say 90% of the batteries, with Tesla's Gigafactory(ies), established car manufacturers are bound to be knocking on Tesla's door, to get the batteries for their cars...
 

hockeythug

Active Member
Jun 3, 2013
1,979
879
Minnesota
Mercedes, Audi and Porsche have just announced all-electric vehicles at this year’s 2015 Frankfurt Motor Show, and they are pick-your-jaw-off-the-floor-insanity. We are going to see cars like these within 5 years. That means Tesla has 5 years (but less, really) to build the company’s brand and sales up to a level where they can combat the onslaught of the German invasion.

Assuming these cars are actually produced, this is what Musk wanted anyways.
 

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,141
Ontario, Canada
Here's the thesis of the article:

"when all the established car makers start going all-electric, what’s Tesla value proposition?

Their brand? Hardly anything other than the current owners of Tesla vehicles.
Their technology? Those patents were released into the public domain.
Their manufacturing process? You’re joking, right?


So seriously, what is Tesla’s play here as far as cars are concerned? Because I don’t see it."

Other choice bits

"Now, I’m not discussing moonshots like the Gigafactory or anything else that Tesla is working on that’s not directly related to cars."

Just to play devil's advocate, he has somewhat of a point. Tesla has only a few years to up their game to the point where the "car" is on par with the best that comes from the other manufacturers. Right now they sell based on the fact that there is nothing out there with a power train that is remotely equal. The car itself (most specifically the interior) is good, but not excellent. They've had to make a lot of compromises because of their low production volumes.

That said, I believe that Tesla CAN catch up. Remember that almost none of an auto interior is actually produced by the automakers themselves anymore. And Tesla is starting to produce volumes that will interest the better quality parts makers. I am 100% certain that, as we speak, the Model S V2.0 interior is in development. And I'm sure that you will have more visible differentiation between trim levels.

In the worst case, if Tesla starts to suffer and their stock slides, one of the bigger makers will acquire them and the brand & technology will live on - as the Daimler Tesla or something similar.
 

mknox

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2012
10,103
1,870
Toronto, ON
Assuming these cars are actually produced, this is what Musk wanted anyways.

I was just going to mention that. He has said even if Tesla fails as a company, but spurs on the electrification of transportation, he would consider that a success. The article was ridiculous, but car buying is a funny thing. Brand loyalty can be a strong motivator. As I talk to people about electric cars (in general), the biggest problem seems to be a lack of selection. There are thousands of ICE cars and SUVs to choose from, but only a small handful of EVs. If none tickle your fancy, you will probably feel like the author of that article.
 

callmesam

Member
Jan 22, 2013
985
629
Santa Monica
Just to play devil's advocate, he has somewhat of a point. Tesla has only a few years to up their game to the point where the "car" is on par with the best that comes from the other manufacturers. Right now they sell based on the fact that there is nothing out there with a power train that is remotely equal. The car itself (most specifically the interior) is good, but not excellent. They've had to make a lot of compromises because of their low production volumes.

That said, I believe that Tesla CAN catch up. Remember that almost none of an auto interior is actually produced by the automakers themselves anymore. And Tesla is starting to produce volumes that will interest the better quality parts makers. I am 100% certain that, as we speak, the Model S V2.0 interior is in development. And I'm sure that you will have more visible differentiation between trim levels.

In the worst case, if Tesla starts to suffer and their stock slides, one of the bigger makers will acquire them and the brand & technology will live on - as the Daimler Tesla or something similar.

Tesla already makes the best rated car ever made by the most respected rating agency, Consumer Reports. Trying to be like another automaker would be punching below their weight.

Regarding the interior, it's all cupholders and sun visors.
 

jgs

Active Member
Oct 28, 2014
1,581
934
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Regarding the interior, it's all cupholders and sun visors.

I'm inclined to agree. And the Germans have historically not been very good at cupholders.

I moved from an Audi A6 to my Model S. The A6 is perhaps the most frequently-cited example when people are discussing interiors, of how to do it better. And for the first couple weeks I did miss my A6 interior (nothing else about it, though). At this point, however, even if you offered to fit an A6 interior to my Model S for free, I don't think I'd take it. I've started to like the uncluttered feel of the Tesla on its own merits. Its salability probably does suffer from the lower bling-bling quotient, though, because first-time buyers are not going to take the time needed to get used to it. (I speculate that this is the exact same reason Mac OS X has steadily been getting worse from a usability perspective since its introduction. Usability is job two, running a distant second to "closing the sale". But I digress.)
 

sandpiper

Active Member
Sep 25, 2014
2,833
2,141
Ontario, Canada
Tesla already makes the best rated car ever made by the most respected rating agency, Consumer Reports. Trying to be like another automaker would be punching below their weight.

Regarding the interior, it's all cupholders and sun visors.

Yes and no. They're missing a bunch of basic things. I strongly suspect that the spartan design aesthetic was chosen largely because they wanted to keep the cost of tooling (and time for production of tooling) for the various interior forms to a bare minimum. That said, they did a pretty darn good job with a very small number of components and molds. And I give them credit for selling a compromise as a feature.

I'm certainly not advocating for the the very busy field of buttons and switches that you see in an Audi. But there is definitely room for improvement.
 

callmesam

Member
Jan 22, 2013
985
629
Santa Monica
Yes and no. They're missing a bunch of basic things. I strongly suspect that the spartan design aesthetic was chosen largely because they wanted to keep the cost of tooling (and time for production of tooling) for the various interior forms to a bare minimum. That said, they did a pretty darn good job with a very small number of components and molds. And I give them credit for selling a compromise as a feature.

I'm certainly not advocating for the the very busy field of buttons and switches that you see in an Audi. But there is definitely room for improvement.

This:

hero_eames_lounge_2.jpg


vs

This:

XXX_Pair_of_White_Leather_Barca_Loungers_2_1.jpg
 

eye.surgeon

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
1,368
2,014
California
I agree this article is stupid but the frequently-referenced conspiracy theory that any negative press is the handiwork of "big oil" (whatever that is) is ridiculous. Oil companies don't care about Tesla. To think otherwise is what I believe the DSM-V refers to as a grandiose delusion. Tesla's impact on the oil industry is a rounding error.
 

austinEV

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 16, 2013
3,231
7,352
Austin
Just to play devil's advocate, he has somewhat of a point. Tesla has only a few years to up their game to the point where the "car" is on par with the best that comes from the other manufacturers. Right now they sell based on the fact that there is nothing out there with a power train that is remotely equal. The car itself (most specifically the interior) is good, but not excellent. They've had to make a lot of compromises because of their low production volumes.

That said, I believe that Tesla CAN catch up. Remember that almost none of an auto interior is actually produced by the automakers themselves anymore. And Tesla is starting to produce volumes that will interest the better quality parts makers. I am 100% certain that, as we speak, the Model S V2.0 interior is in development. And I'm sure that you will have more visible differentiation between trim levels.

In the worst case, if Tesla starts to suffer and their stock slides, one of the bigger makers will acquire them and the brand & technology will live on - as the Daimler Tesla or something similar.

TM might have competition problems if a competitor started building a battery gigafactory and a supercharger network. Until then the other makers can make really fantastic EV's and sell 10-20k per year.

Also, they have the innovators dilemma. If they do put their excellent EV's in the dealerships and accurately explain to users how the EV's are better than the ICE's then customers will waitlist on the EV's or go to tesla, tanking their ICE sales and the survival of the company is dependent on that not happening. The innovators delimma predicts the ICE majors will simply go out of business or wait until 5 years too late and scrap everything and go wholly into retooling for high volume EVs. The extreme case would see the auto industry of 2030 dominated by Tesla, and the merged union of GM, Ford, Toyota, BMW which would struggle to get capital and compete.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,021
6,507
Austin, TX
The big players still have lots of franchised locations on major freeways throughout the country. If they accept EV is in their own best interest, a strong network of chargers would be feasible.
 

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