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Another "Tesla killer" fading already?

Magellan55

Member
Aug 30, 2018
385
352
Chapel Hill, NC
So this is just US sales figures, but it looks like the eTron hype was short lived. Or maybe mighty Audi is having delivery problems! But after a nice first full month selling 856 cars in May, they have been steadily dwindling, ~100 less cars per month per month (yes I meant that - think about it), and September sold only 434. Makes me wonder where the support level is for this overweight beast that looks nice but has short range and detuned so it doesn't embarrass their SQ5 or Q8.

So where are the news flashes? Where are the Seeking Alpha bloggers claiming they don't know how to build cars? Where is Chanos?

On a similar note, the iPace seems to have settled just under 200 cars/month in the US. Any guesses where Taycan will settle down to? My guess is <100/month after the initial rush, and maybe 150/month when the base and 4S models become available. I kind of assume similar numbers for the MB EV. So all told, all of these lux EV's combined might equal Model S sales in the US. Oh wait, half are SUVs - lump in the Model X? They will need way more lux EV's to come to market to challenge Tesla then.

US Vehicle Sales Figures By Model | GCBC
 

Magellan55

Member
Aug 30, 2018
385
352
Chapel Hill, NC
True. To be fair to Jaguar, they actually put some effort into the iPace, and it's >8% of their sales now in year 2. It's no compliance car.

It's possible the Taycan will be a similar hit among their loyalists and may be more of a threat to the Panamera than to the Model S. It seems to be that 4-door 911 they should have built all along. Could be fun watching the next-gen horsepower wars between Tesla and Porsche. Especially when we advance to Roadster-vs-e911! (911e? - I think "e911" is already taken in the telecom world...).
 
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Akikiki

A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
Nov 26, 2012
6,478
4,560
Kaneohe, HI
The eTron is not a Tesla killer. It's a sister. It's certainly not to be celebrated that its selling less one month than before. We want all EV's to success. Even those EVs that are half or less than half the range of a Tesla. Even those cars are filling a niche for their owners.

I hope there is success for Audi and Jag with their Tesla sisters.
 

PhilDavid

Active Member
May 22, 2018
2,552
1,854
Philadelphia
Could we please stop with this sensationalist "Tesla Killer" nonsense.

No one is killing Tesla. No one is killing Porsche. No one is killing Volvo. And no one is killing Jaguar. Let different manufacturers make different cars for different people.

We should celebrate and encourage all those who make EVs. So what if the E-Tron sales are down. Audi is a smart company and they will do better with their next EV and make improvements to the E-Tron. Now they know to focus on weight, range, and performance. SpaceX launched 4 times before they reached orbit.

I obviously love Tesla but I wish the Tesla community was in general more supportive about other EVs. Porsche Taycan first year production is sold out. I predict it will soon become Porsche's best selling model or very close to that.

I can't wait for there to be more EVs to chose from. It will be better for the environment and encourage Tesla to improve customer support and service.
 

S4WRXTTCS

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
5,631
6,405
Snohomish, WA
I tend to think of the E-Tron, and the Taycan as solid alternatives to a Tesla.

But, they were really designed with a European in mind.

I see them as mostly beneficial to those that live in Europe, and I think that's where you'll get the best sales numbers.

Both of them are fairly overpriced in the US compared to a Tesla. Plus the Electrify America network still has a ways to go in both the rollout, and in people realizing they even exist.
 

tonybelding

Active Member
Aug 17, 2006
1,482
803
Hamilton, Texas
I have mixed feelings about all of this myself.

We need more car makers to validate the concept of electric cars — not just for consumers (although that's important) but also for the car industry itself. Remember that poll not so long ago that found a majority of auto execs still expecting BEVs to fail?

Tesla have proven by now that there's healthy demand — for Teslas. But at some point Tesla's dominance of the EV space becomes counter-productive. On that note, one thing I love about the Porsche Taycan, even though it's in many ways not a car for me. . . It definitely made a big splash and has done more to validate electric cars.

On the other hand, I've got to admit feeling just a little smug. No, the "big boys" who really know how to make cars haven't piled in and wiped out poor, hapless Tesla. Not yet. Good luck with that. :rolleyes:
 

Brettski

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2018
256
188
Palm Desert, CA
I haven’t seen either car, and I work and live where there are a variety of EVs.
Etrons can definitely be seen driving around my area. I looked at one at the Audi dealer - typical beautiful high-quality German interior, but with such an inferior/impractical range.....
 

MichaelP90DL

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
1,588
1,603
Lancaster, CA
Could we please stop with this sensationalist "Tesla Killer" nonsense.

No one is killing Tesla. No one is killing Porsche. No one is killing Volvo. And no one is killing Jaguar. Let different manufacturers make different cars for different people.

We should celebrate and encourage all those who make EVs. So what if the E-Tron sales are down. Audi is a smart company and they will do better with their next EV and make improvements to the E-Tron. Now they know to focus on weight, range, and performance. SpaceX launched 4 times before they reached orbit.

I obviously love Tesla but I wish the Tesla community was in general more supportive about other EVs. Porsche Taycan first year production is sold out. I predict it will soon become Porsche's best selling model or very close to that.

I can't wait for there to be more EVs to chose from. It will be better for the environment and encourage Tesla to improve customer support and service.
Reminds me of the early years of the Mac in the PC environment. Mac users were sorta similar.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,639
2,548
SF Bay Area, CA
I still haven't seen an e-tron or iPace in the real world yet ....
I've seen a few (very few) i-Paces running around. For e-tron SUVs (not the A3 e-tron PHEV) In the wild, other than a couple at my work (under 10), I can't remember seeing any e-Trons elsewhere in the wild.

Teslas are just dominating the EV/PHEVs in our work registry and in terms of the new (possibly used) plug-in vehicles that show up and get added.
Tell the media. TMC posts aren't where it originated or continues to flow from.
Agreed. And, I can't think of any case where the automaker themselves (at least for the US market in the past 5 years) has claimed that their EV is/will be a "Tesla killer".

Those words seem to be in clickbait headlines from the media.
 
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luvacoustic

Member
May 23, 2017
45
149
Greenville SC
I have a 2017 MS 75D and was fortunate enough to be able to borrow an e-tron for a week this summer while my MS was in the shop for a body damage repair. It’s a beautiful car in and out, but not a true competitor to a Tesla for anyone that has a Tesla.
The range is 200miles, if you drive carefully - it was closer to 175 with my normal driving. That’s in a 95 KW battery. I get 240 miles out of my 75 KW.
Charging is odd. Every time you plug in at home, the charger will default to low current and you have to manually adjust it to high current to get 11KW/hr, otherwise it defaults to 110voltage and takes 80-90 hours to charge (as it would for a Tesla plugged into a 110 outlet). It’s incredibly inconvenient for home charging as you plug it in, wait for it to start charging, then go find the transformer on the cord to hit the button to go to high speed - every single time.
Acceleration was around 6.5 seconds to 60 unless you dig through the menu to enable sport mode. Then it would drop to around 5.5 seconds, but you have to do this every time and it’s not a default.
Finally, I really enjoy the serene silence of my MS. It’s like a ninja and I find that folks who have never seen an MS are first shocked at how quiet it is when I roll up. The e-tron makes a very loud fake space-ship type of noise. It’s especially loud in reverse. My 6 and 7 year olds thought it was broken and wondered why it was so loud. It’s a pedestrian safety thing in europe, but shows the contrast between the Tesla being a car built as electric and the Audi as a car turned electric.
The interior is grade A Audi and the exterior is as well. The frunk is only big enough for the charging cord at just a few inches deep - clearly a stretched Q5 converted into an electric car.
It may be appealing to a first time electric driver who already has ICE cars, won’t travel out of town with it (you can’t even charge faster than 21 miles an hour at the dealers now - there are no chargers greater than 11KW yet), doesn’t miss the performance of a normal Audi, and doesn’t mind the space ship noise, oh and the model I had was $94k - so $40K more than a comparably equipped Q5. I had a long talk with folks at the dealer and the owner of the store, it’s going to be a tough sale.... not to wish other EVs less success, but the product is just inferior and non-competitive at that price. The sales stats are bearing it out.
 

Big Toys

Member
Jan 19, 2019
608
507
Florida
A friend of mine bought the etron recently. His wife says he really likes it, but I have not seen nor talked to him about it. I heard he forgets to plug it in. Ha!

Regarding range, I'm not so sure the 200 mile best is so outrageous for most drivers. For Tesla owners instructed to charge their battery to 80%, it puts you exactly in the 180 -200 mile range anyway for daily driving, which 99% of daily drivers likely don't use anyway. Long trips an issue? Park the etron and use the Benz.
 
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jkoya

NA2 NSX
Nov 21, 2018
3,626
1,557
Northern CA
Thought I finally saw an iPace yesterday, but it was actually an ePace. While not an EV, I did see a Toyota Mirai finally on the freeway (can't mistake it for anything else...) and someone in our neighborhood is driving a Honda Clarity Fuel Cell car.
 

Chaserr

Hyperactive Hyperdrive
Sep 5, 2017
2,666
5,597
Logan
I still haven't seen an e-tron or iPace in the real world yet ....
They're beautiful cars, but much smaller than I thought they would be. It's more like a Model 3 than a Model X - nothing wrong with that, but in the reviews they always compared it to an X.

I tend to think of the E-Tron, and the Taycan as solid alternatives to a Tesla.

But, they were really designed with a European in mind.

I see them as mostly beneficial to those that live in Europe, and I think that's where you'll get the best sales numbers.

Both of them are fairly overpriced in the US compared to a Tesla. Plus the Electrify America network still has a ways to go in both the rollout, and in people realizing they even exist.
Taycan is replacing my Tesla - it has more range and is faster than my Performance Model S, so I see it as a more comfortable direct competitor to my previous electric car. I don't understand the "made for Europe" concept - what does this mean?

Open charging networks might be in their early phases of development, but so was Supercharging back in 2013. With Porsche pouring something like $30B into EA, it's going to keep growing quickly. I just don't see why Tesla hasn't offered an adapter to use it yet.
 

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