Another "Tesla killer" fading already?

[tomas]

I tend to think of the E-Tron, and the Taycan as solid alternatives to a Tesla.

But, they were really designed with a European in mind.

I see them as mostly beneficial to those that live in Europe, and I think that's where you'll get the best sales numbers.

Both of them are fairly overpriced in the US compared to a Tesla. Plus the Electrify America network still has a ways to go in both the rollout, and in people realizing they even exist.

Hmm, how do you mean? Historically, the biggest selling EVs in Europe have been small cars, such as Renault Zoe, VW eGolf, and now Model 3. This synchs with overall Europe sales preference for small cars in every category. SUVs are rare. Sure, Taycan suits the wealthy autobahn driver, but that is small % of European consumers, and truly not meaningful in overall sales numbers.

ETron IMO not designed for Europe at all. Doesn't suit the "inexpensive, small car" buyer. Doesn't suit the sports car buyer. Doesn't suit the autobahn cruiser buyer, as range with the hammer down on autobahn would be embarrassing!

 

[JohnSnowNW]

There are multiple reasons why sales are slow here...but one of the big ones has to be the poor specs-to-price ratio. Yes, I understand that not everyone requires more than a grocery getter, but the amount of people that want to spend $70+k on one appears to be rather small, at least here in the US.

I want EVs to succeed...but other companies need to actually produce them for the expectations of 2020...not 2010.

 

[brianman]

For Tesla owners instructed to charge their battery to 80%

Instructed by whom?

 

[brianman]

Taycan is replacing my Tesla

Please start a thread with your impressions after you've had the car a week. Many of us are interested in all EV developments that are purchasable at retail. Thanks in advance.

 

[brianman]

My colleague has an etron. He says it's better than the Model X in many ways (which he also has).

I mean yeah if you're a spec sheet internet racer then it's worse, but don't knock it until you drive it.

Would love to hear his thoughts directly if you can get him to join and post here. (Or just let him post here with a prefix "He, I'm the colleague with the etron…." )

 

[mswlogo]

I suspect it's gonna to be Rivian.

I think the big issue is dealers. The existing ICE dealers just don't know how to sell EV.

The Chevy Volt died because of DEALERS. They are clueless.

You need fresh blood. Fresh ways of doing things. That's partly why Tesla has succeeded to date.

I suspect Rivian will be similar. I mean really, 100,000 Preorders to Amazon.

Be interesting to watch how Rivian builds up it's dealer network and support structure.

To be honest Rivian and Tesla should strike a deal. Tesla has issues of course but it's a decade ahead in terms of Sales and Support (as bad as it is).

Rivian might strike a deal with Ford or something, but I think they will end up like eTron and Volt if they use existing ICE dealer network.

 

[Big Toys]

Instructed by whom?

Tesla and/or this forum as to prolong battery life. General rule: unless need for full charge, keep @80%.

 

[Big Toys]

decade ahead in terms of Sales and Support (as bad as it is).

You call that level of support "ahead"?

 

[MTSN]

I suspect Rivian will be similar. I mean really, 100,000 Preorders to Amazon.

I hope Rivian makes a cargo van for the consumer market. I have a Sprinter van converted into a camper, and it's one of the most enjoyable vehicles we've ever owned. An electric van would be incredibly cool as a camper.

 

[Big Toys]

I suspect it's gonna to be Rivian.

I think the big issue is dealers. The existing ICE dealers just don't know how to sell EV.

The Chevy Volt died because of DEALERS. They are clueless.

You need fresh blood. Fresh ways of doing things. That's partly why Tesla has succeeded to date.

I suspect Rivian will be similar. I mean really, 100,000 Preorders to Amazon.

Be interesting to watch how Rivian builds up it's dealer network and support structure.

To be honest Rivian and Tesla should strike a deal. Tesla has issues of course but it's a decade ahead in terms of Sales and Support (as bad as it is).

Rivian might strike a deal with Ford or something, but I think they will end up like eTron and Volt if they use existing ICE dealer network.

Tesla will not be a car company forever, and no doubt will sell when Musk decides that it's tall too much. If Rivian lives up to its claims, Tesla will be in trouble.

Ford has already invested in Rivian.

 

[brianman]

Tesla and/or this forum as to prolong battery life. General rule: unless need for full charge, keep @80%.

I've never heard anyone from Tesla recommend anything other than the default (90%) and to avoid supercharging and let it sit.

As for bad forum guidance by the "battery degradation protectors", that's a different social problem IMO.

I disagree and don't recommend the "general rule" you've just promoted. Maybe you're the source... of the bad "instruction".

 

[mswlogo]

You call that level of support "ahead"?

Sadly, yes. Rivian, as far as I know has nothing. But I honestly have not read up on them. They may have big public plans.

Tesla Sales and Support, as problematic as it is, works for most customers.

That’s coming from someone that was recently raked over the Tesla coals in sales.

 

[brianman]

Could we please stop with this sensationalist "Tesla Killer" nonsense.

If Rivian lives up to its claims, Tesla will be in trouble.

You guys should have lunch.

 

[mswlogo]

I've never heard anyone from Tesla recommend anything other than the default (90%) and to avoid supercharging and let it sit.

As for bad forum guidance by the "battery degradation protectors", that's a different social problem IMO.

I disagree and don't recommend the "general rule" you've just promoted. Maybe you're the source... of the bad "instruction".

Someone just posted a really nice quote from Service recommending 80%

90% might report more accurate measurements and not that harmful. But most battery experts will say lower is better.

Lot depends on what your daily use is.

I go 5 day stretches with low use so, 90% is way to high for daily.

I use 80% and I don’t plug in nightly.

After a year and 9K miles my Model 3 was was around 307 on a real full charge. And that would vary a bit.

 

[PhilDavid]

You guys should have lunch.

That's very generous of you to offer to buy us lunch!

With regards to Rivian, with the Ford investment, perhaps that will open up certain Ford Service Centers to also service Rivian vehicles.

 

[Big Toys]

I've never heard anyone from Tesla recommend anything other than the default (90%) and to avoid supercharging and let it sit.

As for bad forum guidance by the "battery degradation protectors", that's a different social problem IMO.

I disagree and don't recommend the "general rule" you've just promoted. Maybe you're the source... of the bad "instruction".

OK, then feel free to disagree and go to 90%. Like I care.

 

[tomas]

I've never heard anyone from Tesla recommend anything other than the default (90%) and to avoid supercharging and let it sit.

As for bad forum guidance by the "battery degradation protectors", that's a different social problem IMO.

I disagree and don't recommend the "general rule" you've just promoted. Maybe you're the source... of the bad "instruction".

OK, then feel free to disagree and go to 90%. Like I care.

@brianman, I guess Mr Big's experience somehow overrides owners like you and I who have owned maybe a combined 10 Teslas since 2012? Charging and degradation learning curves seem to be something each generation of owners wants to learn for themselves.

 

[Oldschool496]

Oh Brother, it really makes so little difference. Now stop bickering.

 

[brianman]

@brianman, I guess Mr Big's experience somehow overrides owners like you and I who have owned maybe a combined 10 Teslas since 2012? Charging and degradation learning curves seem to be something each generation of owners wants to learn for themselves.

Noted. I just found it odd that "degradation issues" were coupled with "instruction to owners" (implied to be from Tesla), hence asking questions to try to learn more and understand.

 

[brianman]

That's very generous of you to offer to buy us lunch!

What a weird interpretation.