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Another thread on AP - Why I don't trust it

pho35

Member
Aug 20, 2020
43
22
Texas
I am in the skeptical camp when it comes to AP but often times wanted to validate my skepticism (yes I know) by putting AP to the test. Today, while approaching a red light and I was coming to a stop with approx. 10ft away from the white marker. I invoke AP thinking it'll see the red light and stop. To my surprise, the car sped up to match speed limit (40 mph). Fortunately, I had my foot on the brake pedal and was able to gain control of the car and stopped properly.

This experience further confirmed my finding of AP. Until Tesla improves this capability, I'll keep my hands and eyes on the road.
 

DirtyT3sla

Member
Apr 17, 2019
547
589
Holly
Well, it's not really a normal use case. First, do you have FSD with the stop lights and stop signs ability enabled? If you do, then yes this was bad behavior. But most people would have AP on as they approach the light, not turn it on at the last second. It should stop either way though of course.

Also, "I'll keep my hands and eyes on the road," is true whether autopilot is engaged or not.
 

mrbloons

Member
May 19, 2020
71
265
Grand Rapids, MI
I've used AP extensively and trust it well, but I'm usually using it on long highway drives, not much in the city where I'm encountering traffic lights. It's really nice if you're in stop and go traffic, great at maintaining a reasonable distance from the car in front of you and staying in it's lane.

I treat it as just a way better version of cruise control, and still pay attention to my surroundings.
 
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animorph

Active Member
Apr 1, 2016
2,143
1,537
Scottsdale, AZ
First turning it on 10ft away from a stop is expecting a lot. I'm surprised it allowed that.

Perhaps by pushing the stalk down it may have taken that as your permission to proceed through the light. Or perhaps your foot was still on the accelerator? Though I've had it stop at red lights after I have confirmed it was OK to go through and the light quickly turned rad after that.

Or maybe it just doesn't really start working that quickly.
 

Double_J

Member
Oct 11, 2020
172
88
Ontario
Wait im confused. The OP said AP, and I thought auto pilot needed another vehicle in front of you. If the lead vehicle stopped then you will stop. No lead car, and you will go through lights, and stop signs.

Fsd could stop without a lead vehicle but not AP. Am I wrong?
 

DirtyT3sla

Member
Apr 17, 2019
547
589
Holly
Wait im confused. The OP said AP, and I thought auto pilot needed another vehicle in front of you. If the lead vehicle stopped then you will stop. No lead car, and you will go through lights, and stop signs.

Fsd could stop without a lead vehicle but not AP. Am I wrong?
You're right but a lot of people use AP and FSD interchangeably.
 
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Eagle II

New Member
Jul 9, 2020
3
0
Vero Beach, FL
Something interesting happened today. I was stopped at an intersection with two through lanes and one left turn lane. While I was stopped all three traffic lights were red. I happened to notice that the visualization showed two red on the left and one green in my far right lane. I believe it was the angle of the sun reflecting off of green lens that caused the erroneous display. No consequence because I was driving and not FSD.
 

Koolio46

Member
Aug 26, 2020
476
196
Boston, MA
Well, it's not really a normal use case. First, do you have FSD with the stop lights and stop signs ability enabled? If you do, then yes this was bad behavior. But most people would have AP on as they approach the light, not turn it on at the last second. It should stop either way though of course.

Also, "I'll keep my hands and eyes on the road," is true whether autopilot is engaged or not.
Totally agree.

I have FSD with the traffic light and stop sign feature enabled. Works perfectly. It sees a red light, it stops. Sees a green light, it requires me to confirm I want it to drive through.

Overall, I have no qualms about using AP. Yes, there are def certain situations that always trip it up but I’ve learned (and continue to learn) what those scenarios are and either disable AP until the scenario has passed or am hyper ready to react if AP does the wrong thing.
 

AKTech.it

Member
Jun 2, 2020
209
121
Texas
OP, I have to agree with you!

Last week I turned on autopilot with several cones that I knew were coming up in my Lane because of construction. I wanted to see if it stops or even moved but it did not and I had to maneuver around them at the last moment!

Again today in a lane that was merging with cones slowly ending the lane, AP did nothing and I would have ran right into them!
 

Freewheeler

Vendor
May 22, 2020
181
160
New York
The OP never responded whether he has AP or full FSD. AP does not stop at lights or signs...like the manual says. Also, even with FSD that’s not the kind of thing you throw in at the last second. I wish people in general would stop referring to FSD as Autopilot. It misleads AP owners into thinking their cars do something that they don’t when they haven’t familiarized themselves with the manual.

AKTech.it - Don’t know what to tell you. Mine navigates construction and cone shifts all the time and does better than I expected. You definitely get a pucker factor especially when it’s new to you because the car will sometimes turn a bit later than you would, so it’s hard to say if the car wasn’t going to turn at all or if you took over before it was going to step in. Alternatively, it could be than the roads weren’t re-striped so it was following the lines and maybe have driven into them. Hard to say based on the narrative.
 
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drtimhill

Active Member
Apr 25, 2019
1,823
2,252
Seattle
Last week I turned on autopilot with several cones that I knew were coming up in my Lane because of construction. I wanted to see if it stops or even moved but it did not and I had to maneuver around them at the last moment!

Again today in a lane that was merging with cones slowly ending the lane, AP did nothing and I would have ran right into them!

Why did you expect it to do otherwise?
 

GRACKLE

Member
Oct 28, 2020
105
20
Austin, TX
Totally agree.

I have FSD with the traffic light and stop sign feature enabled. Works perfectly. It sees a red light, it stops. Sees a green light, it requires me to confirm I want it to drive through.

Overall, I have no qualms about using AP. Yes, there are def certain situations that always trip it up but I’ve learned (and continue to learn) what those scenarios are and either disable AP until the scenario has passed or am hyper ready to react if AP does the wrong thing.

So then maybe the “stop on red light” is functioning correctly when it tries to brake every single time it sees a green stoplight 500 ft away? I’ve gotten tired of it braking so far from the light and my having to accelerate. It also tries to stop at every pedestrian stop light that isn’t even on/triggered. After two days of very choppy drives and a very irritated dog, I disabled that function. Is it looking for me to do something else other than accelerate out of its braking 500 ft in front of a green (or off) light? I.e., something I can do so it doesn’t brake for green lights? Perhaps I just have to stare at the screen when city driving to catch the 500ft warning immediately to disable it?
 

Koolio46

Member
Aug 26, 2020
476
196
Boston, MA
So then maybe the “stop on red light” is functioning correctly when it tries to brake every single time it sees a green stoplight 500 ft away? I’ve gotten tired of it braking so far from the light and my having to accelerate. It also tries to stop at every pedestrian stop light that isn’t even on/triggered. After two days of very choppy drives and a very irritated dog, I disabled that function. Is it looking for me to do something else other than accelerate out of its braking 500 ft in front of a green (or off) light? I.e., something I can do so it doesn’t brake for green lights? Perhaps I just have to stare at the screen when city driving to catch the 500ft warning immediately to disable it?

In my use with stop lights, I haven't had several lights all within a short distance (at least, that's how I'm reading your reply) so don't know if that'd be my experience.

The only thing I do different is I use the gear shift stalk to confirm I want the car to continue through green lights. I tried using the accelerator but just didn't like it since I had to figure out how much to press it to get it to confirm without adding a bit of speed. I could learn how much to press but didn't bother after trying it two times as I prefer using the stalk.

As for the car braking 500ft before the light, yeah, it detects the light at the same distance but in my experience the car isn't applying the brakes but rather slightly lifting off the accelerator. It's definitely noticeable but it doesn't jolt our dog around like AP can during phantom braking events on the highway!
 

GRACKLE

Member
Oct 28, 2020
105
20
Austin, TX
In my use with stop lights, I haven't had several lights all within a short distance (at least, that's how I'm reading your reply) so don't know if that'd be my experience.

The only thing I do different is I use the gear shift stalk to confirm I want the car to continue through green lights. I tried using the accelerator but just didn't like it since I had to figure out how much to press it to get it to confirm without adding a bit of speed. I could learn how much to press but didn't bother after trying it two times as I prefer using the stalk.

As for the car braking 500ft before the light, yeah, it detects the light at the same distance but in my experience the car isn't applying the brakes but rather slightly lifting off the accelerator. It's definitely noticeable but it doesn't jolt our dog around like AP can during phantom braking events on the highway!

I guess it's noticeable because on most of these streets I'm going 50 in a 45mph zone, and when it stops accelerating, it slows pretty quickly. Then you have me pushing on the accelerator (like you, not sure how much is sufficient), which probably causes most of my dog's misery. Accelerate, decelerate, and then again and again as we go down the road.

I'll give your technique a try since mine is a fail. Do you press the gear shift stalk up or down? That doesn't take it out of whichever mode it's in? Once down is cruise control, and twice down is autopilot. I assumed pushing it down once would take it out of AP and just put it into cruise. But if that works and doesn't take it out of AP, that would be a great fix. I'll try it tonight.
 

Koolio46

Member
Aug 26, 2020
476
196
Boston, MA
I guess it's noticeable because on most of these streets I'm going 50 in a 45mph zone, and when it stops accelerating, it slows pretty quickly. Then you have me pushing on the accelerator (like you, not sure how much is sufficient), which probably causes most of my dog's misery. Accelerate, decelerate, and then again and again as we go down the road.

I'll give your technique a try since mine is a fail. Do you press the gear shift stalk up or down? That doesn't take it out of whichever mode it's in? Once down is cruise control, and twice down is autopilot. I assumed pushing it down once would take it out of AP and just put it into cruise. But if that works and doesn't take it out of AP, that would be a great fix. I'll try it tonight.
Just press it down once. It won’t take it out of AP.
Let me know how it goes!
 

tonyb99

Member
Mar 22, 2020
182
102
Tucson
I can get up to three notifications for 1 light, starting 800-900 feet away. Dismiss each one with the stalk. Very uncomfortable (probably more so because I am cruising at +10mph)! Hopefully fixed when the next version of FSD is released.
 

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