Another thread on Mobile Connector or Wall Connector - 14-50 Outlet Question

[davewill]

Related question for the knowledgeable folks in this thread:

I'm nearing completion on the construction of a new home. I asked them to install a 60A, non-GFCI circuit for later installation of a wall charger (I told them this). I saw that they recently installed a 14-50 receptable at the location where this wall charger is supposed to go, which I assume also means it's going to be on a GFCI breaker (I don't think this is installed yet?). Is there any easy way for me to verify that the wiring they installed is indeed capable of 60A and that I will be able to put in a wall charger later without re-wiring everything? Yes I realize I could just ask them the same question but I'll just say that getting the truth out of these people (rather than what I want to hear) has been quite the challenge. My main worry is that they did a circuit for a 14-50 and called it a day, and that I won't be able to get 48A charging in the future out of a wall charger without re-wiring.

Not an electrician and this is my first time with this kind of thing. Thanks for any advice.

Easist thing to do is to turn off the circuit breaker, unscrew the 14-50, pull it gently out of the box and look at the wiring. Post pictures here if you can't find markings that make sense. It would be easier to see inside the panel, but that requires removing the cover around the breakers, and you shouldn't do that unless you are very sure of your ability to do so safely.

Was the wiring installed inside the drywall, or in conduit mounted on the wall?

You will certainly be able to install a wall connector whatever kind of wire they used. The only question is whether you will end up with a 50a or 60a circuit. One other issue is that for a wall connector, they should have left enough wire to feed into the wall connector. You may have to use a pigtail to finish the installation.

 

[jcanoe]

If you paid the builder or their electrical contractor for a 240V/60 amp circuit then you would be entitled to have them correct any deficiency such as only wiring for a 50 amp circuit. If the electrical service panel is near the garage then this should not be difficult to correct. If the 60 amp circuit was not specified as part of a contract and they refuse to replace the wiring you might be stuck for the cost of adding wiring for a second circuit.

In practical terms either the 240V 50 amp and 240V 60 amp circuits are probably more than adequate for your home charging needs. The exception would be if you plan on charging a second vehicle (there are ways you can accomplish this without installing a second charging circuit.) Even if you have an off-peak rate period that is very restrictive, i.e. midnight to 0600 you would be able to complete charging during this window.

At home I charge at 240V and 32 amps (7kW) using a 14-50 receptacle (although I could charge at 40 amps, charging at 32 amps meets my needs.) This setup consistently adds ~25 to 26 miles of range per hour to my LRMY's battery at the 7 kW charging rate. With this setup I rarely need to charge for more than about 2 hours and I don't usually charge every day.

 

[bitwiser]

Easist thing to do is to turn off the circuit breaker, unscrew the 14-50, pull it gently out of the box and look at the wiring. Post pictures here if you can't find markings that make sense. It would be easier to see inside the panel, but that requires removing the cover around the breakers, and you shouldn't do that unless you are very sure of your ability to do so safely.

Was the wiring installed inside the drywall, or in conduit mounted on the wall?

You will certainly be able to install a wall connector whatever kind of wire they used. The only question is whether you will end up with a 50a or 60a circuit. One other issue is that for a wall connector, they should have left enough wire to feed into the wall connector. You may have to use a pigtail to finish the installation.

The wiring is in the drywall. I'll see if I can get into the panel and/or behind the receptacle. Shouldn't be too difficult since the electrical service to the house isn't active yet (I'll double check of course). And yeah I agree it shouldn't be an issue to get at least 50a out of a wall charger, but I probably wouldn't bother with it unless I could get the full 60/48a. Thanks for the input!

 

[bitwiser]

If you paid the builder or their electrical contractor for a 240V/60 amp circuit then you would be entitled to have them correct any deficiency such as only wiring for a 50 amp circuit. If the electrical service panel is near the garage then this should not be difficult to correct. If the 60 amp circuit was not specified as part of a contract and they refuse to replace the wiring you might be stuck for the cost of adding wiring for a second circuit.

In practical terms either the 240V 50 amp and 240V 60 amp circuits are probably more than adequate for your home charging needs. The exception would be if you plan on charging a second vehicle (there are ways you can accomplish this without installing a second charging circuit.) Even if you have an off-peak rate period that is very restrictive, i.e. midnight to 0600 you would be able to complete charging during this window.

At home I charge at 240V and 32 amps (7kW) using a 14-50 receptacle (although I could charge at 40 amps, charging at 32 amps meets my needs.) This setup consistently adds ~25 to 26 miles of range per hour to my LRMY's battery at the 7 kW charging rate. With this setup I rarely need to charge for more than about 2 hours and I don't usually charge every day.

Yes it was specified as 60amp, but given how some other things have played out with this build I want to verify it was done that way before I actually go to install a wall charger down the road. And you're right.. the 14-50 as it's installed now would certainly meet my MYLR charging needs. I want to be ready for a future Cybertruck though, and be able to charge both vehicles as you describe. Thanks for the input!

 

[Rocky_H]

However the S annoys me they slowed it down so far w home charging to avoid any type of warranty claims

This is not true. Home charging on AC circuits is already VERY EXTREMELY SLOW from the battery's perspective, so it was never affected by the firmware updates they pushed that reduced Supercharging speeds. Any differences you were seeing were because of the different efficiency coefficients between the different car models you had.

 

[tesluv108]

This is not true. Home charging on AC circuits is already VERY EXTREMELY SLOW from the battery's perspective, so it was never affected by the firmware updates they pushed that reduced Supercharging speeds. Any differences you were seeing were because of the different efficiency coefficients between the different car models you had.

What part isn’t true? A gen 1 charger on a 2013 s charged at 18 mph. I now have a 2015 s that charges at 16 mph on the same plug but it is gen 2. Tesla did indeed slow down the charging speed that is a fact. The part about warranty claim is probably what you meant isn’t correct.

 

[Rocky_H]

What part isn’t true?

This:

they slowed it down so far w home charging

Home charging speeds were not slowed down or affected by their software changes.

The part about warranty claim is probably what you meant isn’t correct.

No, I meant any changes to speeds of home charging. I would believe the warranty part about the changes at the very high end with Supercharger speeds.

A gen 1 charger on a 2013 s charged at 18 mph. I now have a 2015 s that charges at 16 mph on the same plug but it is gen 2.

The different charging equipment are simply closing switches. They don't have any effect on charging speed. The different car models do. They have different consumption efficiency constants, so their ratios of rated miles per the amount of energy differs.

Tesla did indeed slow down the charging speed that is a fact.

No it isn't.

 

[ASN21]

Excuse the generic question but what price is acceptable for installing a Tesla wall connector in a garage that already has EV pre-wire completed?

 

[davewill]

Excuse the generic question but what price is acceptable for installing a Tesla wall connector in a garage that already has EV pre-wire completed?

There are a few variables you've left out. In particular what amperage circuit, and what state the current wiring is in. I would expect a professional to need no more than a hour's time, and assuming the circuit is already installed, I would not expect to need a permit.

If the wiring location is not convenient and you need to extend the wiring, or if your circuit is not ready to go, for example, there's no circuit breaker installed, then it will take more time and may require a permit after all.

If you want to post a few pictures here, we could advise you better.

 

[ASN21]

There are a few variables you've left out. In particular what amperage circuit, and what state the current wiring is in. I would expect a professional to need no more than a hour's time, and assuming the circuit is already installed, I would not expect to need a permit.

If the wiring location is not convenient and you need to extend the wiring, or if your circuit is not ready to go, for example, there's no circuit breaker installed, then it will take more time and may require a permit after all.

220V/50AMP circuit and it doesn't need to be moved.

 

[davewill]

220V/50AMP circuit and it doesn't need to be moved.

Then I would expect no more than an hour of a professional's time. What that costs will be specific to your area.

 

[M3SNoob]

I JUST bought [Mon 1/23] a Model 3 Performance.

hey @comanchepilot - i read a lot of thread where people were sent $200 vouchers towards a wall connector. almost all threads are from second half of 2022. i am not sure if tesla is still doing this after the recent price adjustments. since you had a recent delivery, did you get a voucher?

 

[howardnj]

hey @comanchepilot - i read a lot of thread where people were sent $200 vouchers towards a wall connector. almost all threads are from second half of 2022. i am not sure if tesla is still doing this after the recent price adjustments. since you had a recent delivery, did you get a voucher?

I ordered my Y in January 2022 and received delivery on September 19th. It came with a J1772 and a coupon a few weeks later for a free mobile charger which I now have.
I don't believe they are offering that coupon any longer?

 

[comanchepilot]

hey @comanchepilot - i read a lot of thread where people were sent $200 vouchers towards a wall connector. almost all threads are from second half of 2022. i am not sure if tesla is still doing this after the recent price adjustments. since you had a recent delivery, did you get a voucher?

No voucher. The clowns at the local sales center were clueless about everything except ordering a car on the website-

 

[Rocky_H]

hey @comanchepilot - i read a lot of thread where people were sent $200 vouchers towards a wall connector. almost all threads are from second half of 2022. i am not sure if tesla is still doing this after the recent price adjustments. since you had a recent delivery, did you get a voucher?

This is not related to when people's cars are being delivered. It's based on when they ordered them. All of the orders placed through July 7, 2022 did include that voucher coupon for the charging device. Orders placed from July 8, 2022 onward will not include that.

The Universal Mobile Connector is no longer standard equipment with new orders after 8 July 2022??

Once you place your order you get shown this?? Looks like they reduced the price of the Mobile Connector too

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[wordragon]

I used a wall connector for two years before I moved. I have a new WC which I can't install for another 6-9 months. I have a 50A arc welder circuit in the garage. I can't use the garage, so I plugged a mobile connector in the garage and ran the cable through the wall. The only thing outside is the cable and the car connector, so it's probably at least as safe as the wall connector. You obviously lose some length on the cable though. Still, if it works for you, it delivers 32A, and no 240V outlets or the connector hardware in the rain. Yes, you have to put a hole in the wall with a gasket, but it looks better than any of the big outlet housings.

 

[Boeingpilot]

I have a 50amp Wall connector on the side of the garage where my wife has her Model S. I JUST bought [Mon 1/23] a Model 3 Performance. We also have a 14-50 plug in the garage under the main electrical panel. I will be using this - its only on 30 amp breakers so it will charge at 24 amps - should be enough to charge me up ovr night from 20-25% to 75% [where my daily is set]. 24 amps should give me about 5kwh. 55% of capacity is 45kwh - so,, thats 9 hours. TEP [local electric utility] gives me 8 hours at 10 cents per kwh. Close enough.

I'll need to use a 30' extension cord from the 14-50 plug - so it'll have some losses on the way to the mobile connector - but it will work just fine.

wait.... you have a 14-50 connected to a 30 amp breaker??? That is so against code! Or do you really have a 14-30 connector?

 

[comanchepilot]

wait.... you have a 14-50 connected to a 30 amp breaker??? That is so against code! Or do you really have a 14-30 connector?

Not anymore - like I said further down the thread - its been fixed. I now have a 50 amp breaker and 50 amp #4 wire going to a 14-50 -

Yes - I HAD a 30 amp breaker going to a 14-50R [no idea why they used that receptacle 40 years ago when they built the house] but I just used an adapter from 14-50R to 14-30R so that the correct connector plug into the mobile connector only drew 24 amps. It's all correct now.

 

[davewill]

Not anymore - like I said further down the thread - its been fixed. I now have a 50 amp breaker and 50 amp #4 wire going to a 14-50 -

Yes - I HAD a 30 amp breaker going to a 14-50R [no idea why they used that receptacle 40 years ago when they built the house] but I just used an adapter from 14-50R to 14-30R so that the correct connector plug into the mobile connector only drew 24 amps. It's all correct now.

It was common for welders (and maybe other equipment?) to come with 50a plugs, but have a 30a rating on the nameplate. So, circuits would get installed this way. I have no idea whether this met code at the time or not.

 

[Rocky_H]

That is a little bit strange in code. It says that the breaker must never be higher rated than the outlet type rating, but it does not restrict the breaker from being lower rated than the outlet type.