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Another tragic fatality with a semi in Florida. This time a Model 3

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Az_Rael, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    #1 Az_Rael, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
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  2. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    Who here thinks AP was not involved? Are there other cars driving under semi trailers?
     
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  3. run-the-joules

    run-the-joules Active Member

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    I guess that's another customer who has no need for a heads-up display.
     
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  4. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    We don't know if AP was involved.

    What we do know is a lot of other countries have requirements for side protection on trailers to prevents cars from going underneath.

    Lots of people die in accidents with trailers due to sliding under them.

    The fact that this was a Model 3 brings up an interesting question as we know the Model 3 has an interior facing camera. The footage before the accident is likely kept. So investigators will have a good chance of knowing exactly what the driver was doing.

    Whether he fell asleep, or whether he was having a medical condition.
     
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  5. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Have we been officially notified that camera is on? I feel like there is a potential legal problem for Tesla if it turns out to be recording at all times and owners haven't been notified of that. Laws vary per state, so I guess it will matter what the Florida laws are.
     
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  6. Kanting

    Kanting Member

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    My condolences.

    Truck lust never will go away. AEB/AP won't always work.
     
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  7. Zoomit

    Zoomit Active Member

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    The interior camera is not in use hence records nothing currently.
     
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  8. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    I thought we had a thread on this that you created?

    Didn't verygreen confirm that the camera was included in the crash dumps?

    My memory of it is foggy, but I seem to recall the thread not getting much attention. Where people mostly dismissed your concerns. Which I thought was odd as I felt like there needed to be more awareness of the implications of it.
     
  9. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Yes, I just didn't know if in the intervening time something had been added notifying us. It was concerning and yes, it was unfortunate how little others cared.

    For the record, my camera is uncovered. I decided I didn't want to get in some high profile crash and then they find the camera was covered up and THAT becomes the story "what was she hiding!!".
     
  10. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    #10 OPRCE, Mar 1, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
    Too early but well done!


    I'm guessing AP was engaged, with defeat-device on wheel and driver nodding asleep or watching X-Men movie.
    i.e. a more or less pre-programmed suicide.
    [with apologies in advance if wrong about this]
     
  11. StellarRat

    StellarRat Active Member

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    Why aren't these truck drivers getting tickets for not yielding is what I'd like to know? You can't just pull across traffic and expect everyone to stop because you're in a truck. I hope my family sues the you know what out of the trucking company and driver if that ever happens to me. That said, if you're doing what your supposed to do when using EAP or just driving manually, this shouldn't happen. You have to pay attention to the road.
     
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  12. alseTrick

    alseTrick Active Member

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    Not sure of your intention here, but just in case you're being serious:

    Sounds like a truck driving dangerously pulling out into traffic was involved.

    Sounds like an inattentive Tesla driver was involved.

    And yes, other cars drive under semis. Lots of them. car crashes under semi - Google Search
     
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  13. docherf

    docherf Member

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  14. Electric Dream

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    That stretch of road is straight, flat and with no signs or buildings to prevent either driver seeing the other as long as they were paying attention.

    With the facts we have it's difficult to come to any conclusion other than it possibly could have been avoided if either driver saw the other vehicle, but the Tesla driver probably had the advantage in that respect, so you've got to suspect he was incapacitated or not paying attention.
     
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  15. MMBTUS

    MMBTUS Member

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    This one hits very close to home. I drive that stretch of highway often. It’s one of the few, original agricultural preserve areas left in this part of South Florida. Pero Farms is one of the largest pepper growers anywhere. Family business. Big operation. Lots of trucks entering and crossing 50-55 mph speed limit lanes.

    The driver of this one screwed up very, very badly. Horrendous for the victim(s) including family and friends. Yet an attentive driver would have seen the errant truck. I’m certain of this from driving it always.

    The auto-braking features of the M3 with EAP when TACC is engaged operate totally differently than CC without EAP:

    8CB4E302-695B-4062-B906-76D4DFE35640.jpeg

    To assess AEB involvement and performance in this crash, investigators will need to know if the M3 was equipped with EAP; whether TACC (if so) or CC (if not) was engaged; and the M3 speed at which the obstacle was detected (if it was detected at all). And if the driver provided any inputs. These factors determine when and how M3 brakes itself.

    Morally, the enhanced TACC safety braking envelope protection should never happen e been a $3-7K option. Period. And I’m a shareholder and very happy M3 owner without EAP.
     
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  16. RedModel3

    RedModel3 Member

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    Yes, but you don't hear about them because they aren't Teslas.
     
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  17. docherf

    docherf Member

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  18. MMBTUS

    MMBTUS Member

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    I think it's possible the poor driver was not using TACC before the collision, and therefore "AutoPilot" was not involved.

    But first, let me be clear that, to date, "AutoPilot" or "AP" has specifically meant TACC -- plus or minus AutoSteer. Not Enhanced AutoPilot (EAP), although TACC is (or was) part of that package. It never did and does not mean standard cruise control. It's easy to see why the non-Tesla world is utterly confused by these naming conventions. Tesla didn't help with the recent refinements to its price lists. Going forward, TACC and AutoSteer will be packaged as such, and everything else now in EAP or FSD (including software and hardware) will be sold as AutoPilot. Oy.

    With that cleared up, here's why I think the collision could have been a non-TACC, non-AP event, assuming the trailer was detected at all:

    -In a non-EAP M3 (without TACC), with or without standard cruise control engaged, travelling at 55MPH, EAB would deploy to reduce the impact speed by 25MPH, then release the brakes. At that point the car still "underrides" the trailer at 30MPH, faster at higher speeds, with no further pedal inputs. This seems fast enough to do real harm given the awful physics involved, while leaving enough momentum for the car to roll some.

    -In an EAP M3, with TACC were engaged at 55 MPH, EAB would have been applied to full stop force upon detection, and I believe it's likely the car would have come to a complete stop sooner if fully braked at collision than if braked-and-released. So the longer roll distance suggests no hard sustained braking applied. I'm just speculating and could be 100% wrong. A finding that TACC actually was engaged would make this a legit AP fail scenario. But it would have to be an EAP M3 WITH TACC engaged to check that box.

    I do feel a connection to this crash because it's so close to home; could have been me on a road I travel often; could still be someone I know; the facts make it a matter of unusual human interest, and not in a good way; and people need to know that some crashes cannot be avoided even with the best available technology.

    Regrettably, the trailer could have been practically invisible to sensors and humans in this particular situation.

    I'm going to watch how local media and officials cover this. We'll all see the national coverage.
     
  19. rickjames

    rickjames Member

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    Considering there are around 200 side impact deaths a year and 5000 semi truck involved deaths per year I'd say this is a problem.

    The best technology to avoid a crash is the thing between your ears: Pay attention while using your autopilot folks.
     
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  20. SMAlset

    SMAlset Active Member

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    First off hated to read of this incident and very sorry to hear we lost a fellow Model 3 driver. Got to have been a horrible scene to come upon as a passerby and for the investigators/emergency crew working the accident that saw it up close. Condolences to his family if they happen to read this, my heart goes out to them.

    A truck making a turn through an intersection not at a light I assume is always at fault for pulling out without yielding right of way. Trucks like that move slow. Cars along a highway are moving a much greater speed and even if not on AP probably thought the truck wouldn't have pulled out in front of them. That's a long span of trailer to slid under.

    Given how this type of deadly accident has happened many times before I can only guess the trucking industry has some powerful lobbying or we would have seen the side panels been required a long time ago. With driver assisted or self-driving cars becoming more prevalent, can't see how this life-saving change can be postponed much longer.
     
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